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Comment by struppi | Hacker News Reader

OK, wait, this does not make sense. If half of Romania an Bulgaria wanted to come to the UK, they would already be there. Because free movement already exists.

Why would anyone decide now to "quickly move to the UK", just because they are leaving the EU? I would rather see this as a disincentive to move there, as a EU citicen, right now...

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I agree. There already was a (failed) "Romanian invasion" several years ago. Furthermore, the recent events & decisions have given the UK, at leas in my immigrant eyes, a relative sense of insecurity. I would personally not relocate without knowing how the brexiters would react towards immigrants, regardless of the legality of their stay.

By the time the UK is done committing sepuku nobody will want to go there anyway. Their immigration problem will solve itself.

Because you're probably a high-paid professional (reasonable assumption for a HN user) and are not considering staying in the country illegally after you arrive.

Bulgarians have had all this time (10 years) to go live in the UK legally. Why would they suddenly rush to leave everything behind and go live there illegally? It doesn't make any sense.

Is this just straight up racism? What is special about these two specific countries that doesn't apply to any of the other ones in the EU?

Decades of tabloid news have convinced Britons that the UK is great place to live in spite of the UK having some of the poorest places in the northern EU.

http://inequalitybriefing.org/graphics/briefing_43_UK_region...

Romania and Bulgaria are the last joiners to the EU (2007) (disregarding the much smaller Croatia) and the last two EU countries to be given the right to work in the UK without a work visa (2014) (don't know about Croatia in this respect).

Their citizens are perceived to be the least desirable EU citizens to have as immigrants.

Size of economy.

You are absolutly right, and few days ago there a proof for your theory - more people are leaving now UK than comming to leave here

That isn't true, net migration fell but it is still positive: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/23/net-migratio...

Why wouldn't they stay, legally or ilegally, in the equally rich Germany, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, Finland, Austria? All of which are closer to the origin countries than the UK.

Or why wouldn't they go in the slightly-less-richer, but culturally closer Spain or Italy? Especially since the weather is much nicer over there :)

As a British guy in Finland I can say that the reason many people moved to the UK was because of the perception of easy work, easy integration, and good practices.

Those things might exist in other countries, I don't know of them personally, but I do know that moving to Finland is non-trivial. The language is hard, and unless you speak it you've only got unskilled jobs to find - with high competition. Gaining residency pretty much necessitates having a job too, which makes it all a bit circular.

I'm settled here for the foreseeable future, although I have to wait another couple of years before I qualify for citizenship.

Actually, customer facing unskilled jobs are harder to get while only speaking English.

I could believe that; I was thinking of things like cleaning and seasonal work such as fruit-picking.

English language, maybe? Obviously a lot of those other countries have very high numbers of English speakers, but most good jobs still require you to speak the native language.

Why would "half a country" risk insecurity and (occasional) hostility from locals, to remain illegally in the UK, when there are quite a few other viable options within the EU?

You're confusing right to live with right to travel. You don't need the right to live in order to go to the UK and work illegally.

> Because you're probably a high-paid professional (reasonable assumption for a HN user)

But the article is not about people from hacker news, it's about any EU citizen.

Is this true?

Bulgaria and Romania are both EU countries, neither is Schengen.

How is the UK different in this regard?

The question is, do people from Romania and Bulgaria need a visa? Looks to me they can not just move to the UK but maybe the UK has different agreements with this countries.

Just checked: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Romanian...

Looks like they don't need anything but a passport to go to the UK.

No, Romanians can move to the UK for good with a Romanian ID. They don't need a passport. For those thinking about this now, it's decision time because as we now know, after March this won't be possible. 152,000 Romanians registered for UK National Insurance (NI) numbers in 2014/15

That's because of the EU citizenship, which allows the free movement of people. Obtaining a work permit might be a different thing, but I'm really just guessing here...

Pretty sure Romania is in Schengen. As someone that spends more than half the year in Romania I know I hear it mentioned a lot.

Actually, I am 100% sure that Romania IS NOT Schengen. And the UK is also not Schengen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

I nearly f. this up when I was traveling with my Non-EU girlfriend who was on a single entry Visa and I was about to book a flight for us from Vienna to Sofia to travel in East Europe.

The question is: Can citizens of Bulgaria and Romania just move to the UK without further requirements? Looks to me they would need a visa.

> Can citizens of Bulgaria and Romania just move to the UK without further requirements?

Yes. This right has nothing at all to do with Schengen.

The transitional restrictions for Bulgarians and Romanians, implemented when the two countries joined the EU, ended on 1 January 2014.

Joining the Schengen Area is an ongoing process. Romania is currently not a member state.

Neither is the UK.

It's fairly easy to foresee a rush to get in before the door closes.

Define "rush". There perhaps might be a small uptick in people who were considering it, had plans in place and would now accelerate those plans, but are we so arrogant as a nation that we think EU citizens who have had the option to come here for years would now think, as we're about to say "fk you" to our closest neighbours and embark on years of uncertainty, will suddenly uproot their lives to come here?

I have friends and loved ones who moved here from the countries mentioned who contribute to this country infinitely more than a large number of native Brits. No one ever really talks about the human side of all of this.

>There perhaps might be a small uptick in people who were considering it

Like there was only going to be a trickle of immigration from the Eastern European countries when they joined the EU.

Don't get me wrong, I was staunchly in favour of remaining and see immigration from Europe as largely positive but we have to be more honest about it.

One could also foresee a rush out since the country is turning into a place many people would probably not want to live in. Seems naive to assume you won't be kicked out eventually.

I haven't heard any politician from either side of the debate calling for immigrants to be removed after brexit, in fact it has been quite the opposite.

Why? Serious question. What kind of benefit, advantage would they achieve? To my understanding of the UK immigration system there wouldn't be any.

If I was thinking of emigrating anywhere and I knew the door would close in two years then I would bring forward my plans, if I found out it was closing in a couple of weeks I'd think it was already too late. I don't see why this is controversial.

I was asking for facts, not gut feelings. Can you name any kind of certificate or any other kind of paper a immigrant could get now which would help him in the future?

Isn't that the whole point of the original article, there will be a cutoff point, people assumed it would be when we left the EU but the government is about to state that it will be when we call article 50.

A marriage certificate?

Why would you have to immigrate _now_ for a marriage certificate? Do you think the situation will worsen even more for couples married after the cut off date?

Right, but only if you were expecting to emigrate anyway. Otherwise it's hard to see how this would have any effect. It's not as if being 'trapped in the EU' is a major concern on the minds of most Europeans right now.

Conversely, there may well be plenty of Brits who may well be concerned that reciprocal restrictions might prevent them from emigrating to the EU and might move forward their plans to do so too.

...and it's also fairly easy to forsee that this rush will not happen, if, during the negotiations, the economy in britain goes further down.

But we will only know for sure in two years.

Anyway, I would have expected that there was a bigger rush up until the Brexit vote, when the British economy was very good and moving there seemed to be a safe bet (because it was in the EU and you could stay indefinitely).

The economy is currently doing well in the UK. All doom and gloom forecasts as a result of the referendum have been re-revised up.

Yes GBP has dropped in value but it will inevitably bounce back in time (although unlikely to the artificial high it was on just before the referendum last year).

Perhaps the government-scale numbers and stock markets haven't been hit as much, but I know my wallet is being pinched more: food, travel, technology, heck, even apps. "The economy" is one thing, money in the pocket is quite another.

Sure, and I'm feeling the same.

But a lot of the price pinches are down to currency fluctuation resulting in sellers raising prices in GBP hence our purchasing power is reduced.

The actual economy of the country to date is doing alright.

This is just tabloid regurgitation. The situation is much more fluid and nuanced, no-one is sure of what's going to happen going forward.

Right, so measures that confirm your prejudice are legitimate, whereas anything that dropped was clearly 'artificially high'

There have been numerous stories both before and after the referendum suggesting GBP was overvalued.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/12065157/Pound-i...

https://fullfact.org/economy/exchange-rates-and-imf/

>Yes GBP has dropped in value but it will inevitably bounce back in time

Are you putting money on that?

Real estate always goes up...

Only if you don't understand the system. Merely arriving makes no difference; it's the application for permanent residence that's important.

We don't know that yet.

What? We know what the existing system is: residence is a necessary but not sufficient condition for becoming a permanent resident. People who have lived here for ages under the free movement rights are applying for permanent residence, and some are being rejected: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/27/rejections-e...

>What?

Every politician I have listened to has said they want existing migrants to stay, it's absurd to think that wouldn't be the case.

Much as I didn't like the decision brexit is nothing like 30's Germany.

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