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Comment by untog | Hacker News Reader

I really, really wish someone would make a smaller Android device. I was hoping the Nokia 3 would be it, but alas.

Surely I'm not alone and there is a market out there? The iPhone SE sells well, and will be my next phone after I lost my trust in Sony's compact Android devices.

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I've been using Android since the HTC G1 and I'm planning to switch to the iPhone SE after Apple's rumoured March event where they are said to be introducing a 128gb model. I've had it with big phones and lack of OS updates (even on a current-gen flagship Galaxy S7). As far as I know, the only smallish Android phones available make huge sacrifices in performance and storage space, and if my S7 still doesn't have Nougat after 6 months, you can forget about some inexpensive small Android phone.

I have a Sony Xperia Z5 Compact that just updated to Android 7.0. It's not 7.1 yet, but it's quite up to date. I think Sony updates their phones quite often.

Sony is one of the few Android vendors that mainlines the device drivers for their hardware, so you can reasonably build the newest AOSP version and go to 7.1 if you feel the inclination.

IIRC that excludes their custom camera software though, so the quality of your photos declines when you even do so much as root your phone.

How would rooting your phone (to be clear: enabling the ability to "su" to root, thus giving you full power over your system) screw your camera/image quality? I totally understand flashing 3rd Party ROMs where they can't speak to the hardware as well.

I'm not an expert, but it has something to do with rooting invalidating DRM keys. It was circumvented for the Z3C:

https://blog.al4.co.nz/2015/01/good-news-for-z3-compact-owne...

But it seems like it was a very deliberate choice by Sony.

I don't know who is in charge of Sony's smartphone business, but boy did they fucked up. What a confusing mess. Sony used to be a huge brand, innovative and look what happened.

I mean, they had everything; the design chops, the brand power, the tech, the Sony Stores, etc... Everybody knows the iPhone, Sams's Galaxy, LG G series, Moto phones, but Sony really failed to market their Xperia phones properly.

Just for fun, I went to Sony Canada's website to look at their phones and they have 21 models on the page. I'm not joking. https://www.sonymobile.com/ca-fr/products/phones/

I used that phone (the unlocked international w/ fingerprint scanner) for about a year, but the heat problems in the one I had left me helpless/incommunicado in a few inconvenient situations. Eventually preordered a Pixel and haven't looked back.

The only good Android phones I've used (and I've been using Android since the G1) have been ones Google had a hand in: Nexuses, the original Moto X, and the Pixel. The Sony came close, but the heat problems killed it for me.

I would still jump on a well done, small, Android phone.

If you're referring to the Z5C with the 810 I can tell you every phone that year with the 810 and some with the 808 ran very, very hot. Most companies ended up having the software throttle the processor to keep it from getting so hot. I've never used a sony personally but I hear lots of good things about them (except lack of models in the US).

I have a Z5 Compact as well. Nice little phone, and quite fast. However, I don't think that many developers test their apps on a sub-5" screen, because I've encountered issues with several apps where controls overlap. For example, in VLC's file list the context menu button overlaps with the invisible scroll bar track. It is easy to scroll accidentally. Amazon Music has exactly the same problem, too.

The Android ecosystem is difficult to recommend, and a small Android phone is even more difficult to recommend.

vlc ui is a mess regardless of screen size or even platform.

Also have this. Perfect size on this phone, and waterproof. Looks almost new after two years.

Realistically you can never expect updates from any non-nexus android phones. If you don't want an iphone (like me) and you want a phone that will get regular updates you have to get a nexus (or pixel now).

That's just untrue. Xiaomi ships weekly or bi-weekly updates that include Android security patches.

But is Xiaomi available in the US and what is version is their is based on?

I haven't seen an authorized seller for Xiaomi and I was under the impression that they are still using marshmallow or earlier. Also all their phones are 4.5"+ which is much larger than the comparably compact SE.

I'd love to get a xiaomi phone (esp. based on the price and alleged build quality) but it's just not worth the tradeoffs.

Xiaomi can be used in the US if you get it shipped over, but it's hard to find the right band coverage for the best experience.

I found that despite not always being on the latest version of Android, they had enough polish and stability on their OS to make it worth being a version behind. I used their ROMs back before they made hardware, and if there was ever a bug, it was usually fixed within a week (or at least acknowledged).

And I agree, I'd love for Xiaomi to sell phones, but like everyone else is stating, the iPhone SE is arguably one of the best compact phones. I hope to have mine for many years.

A very happy xiaomi note 4 user here; have switched from nexus (after battery on three nexus phones in my family became unsuable 2 hours of charge ...); I thought I'd miss nexus more; but xiaomi has been great.

To make sure that phone's frequency will work: https://www.frequencycheck.com/

Listings of great phone: https://www.kimovil.com/en/

One plus is also very consistent with updates.

One plus 3 owner here. Received nougat back in December and 3 additional updates since. For a fairly cheap phone I'm surprised with their commitment to software updates.

they also had the OnePlus X which was OPO hardware crammed into a smaller form factor. I would have loved to migrate from my OPO to that but alas they don't make the X anymore.

Have to say, I'm on a very budget, old Moto 3G and I still get regular updates.

BlackBerry's android phones (Priv and the DTEK series) get monthly security updates. They do lag behind in the major version updates though.

I have the SE. Amazing phone, highly recommended, and I'm sure it will continue to get updates for several years, the same can't be said for most Android devices especially from Sony.

5/5s/SE will forever remain Apple's greatest phone in my opinion. I have had my 5 since 2013, and dropped it too many times to possibly count. The metal body is completely worn down and scratched from years of abuse, yet the screen is flawless. I just ordered an $8 battery on Amazon, replaced it in 5 minutes, and my phone is now back to working like new condition. It's the perfect phone.

It's an amazing phone. But I brought the 16gb version and lack of space is wearing on me. I really want to listen to music on it without streaming.

So I'm going to ditch it soon :/ Terrible feeling ditching a perfectly functional thing, I wish I had the foresight when I purchased it get the larger HD.

I was going to buy an SE once they updated it (a newer processor is all I cared about) but they never did. They're talking about adding a 128gb version but sounds like it's still going to include the A9. Why Apple?!

I also have the SE and love it. What's interesting to me is that if the entire surface area of the SE were screen space (no bezel) then the screen would be as large as an iPhone 7's. The same can be said for the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus. I hope that this is the direction that Apple is going with new designs. This also leaves the door open for bezel-free iPhone nano that would fit within the current SE screen.

The problem with that is it defeats the reason I use an SE. I imagine some people use it because they want a physically smaller device, but I use it because I use my phone one handed almost all the time. Keeping the same size but making the screen portion larger kind of defeats the purpose for me (I think the iPhone 4 was the perfect size, but I can't have everything.) If they want to go edge to edge, ok, but sharing the device to the current screen size.

(I also worry about accidental touch rejection on an edge to edge screen. My AppleTV 4 remote is the most useless apple product since the hockey puck mouse of 1998 because the touch pad was registering input when I just picked up the remote. Now I use my AppleTV 3 remote with the 4.)

How would you make a phone call?

They have patents for screens full of holes that should allow a speaker and microphone to work through the screen:

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/10/14225872/apple-patent-oled...

There is another patent regarding the TouchID sensor working through a screen:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/10/04/apple-patents-fing...

The front facing camera is a bigger issue.

With the right sort of directionality you might be able to get away with having the speaker on the top side and the mic on the bottom, leaving the whole front panel for the screen.

Or be super cool and have a mechanical system that pops out a little speaker at the top and a little mic at the bottom.

Maybe it's just my generation but me and pretty much all of my friends have not made a POTS phone call in at least many years traditionally; none of us know our phone numbers nor use them day to day.

If I end up actually calling someone (and pretty much everyone I know despises this and will do anything possible to avoid it) it's usually by tapping their number on a web page or in an app like yelp.

Bluetooth headset. Wired headset. 'Hey Siri' voice control. Apple Watch with headset.

Why would it stop you making a phonecall?

Replaced my 5S by an SE a couple of weeks ago. I fully agree, it's a great phone.

Be sure that you get the 64GB version though! My wife had the 16GB version and had to upgrade to the 64GB version, because the live photos, etc. took up quite a lot of space.

> Be sure that you get the 64GB version though! My wife had the 16GB version and had to upgrade to the 64GB version, because the live photos, etc. took up quite a lot of space

+1000 I got the 16GB version and I've had to micromanage some of my apps and definitely the photos and stuff to free up space. Luckily I don't take that many pictures so I'm ok with occasionally deleting data. Can't imagine using something like Snapchat though (which I used to use but now don't) it uses a TON of space.

The 8GB iPhone 5C is hell. Just the OS takes up at least half the space.

They waited several generations too long to up the lowest disk size. Gotta wonder if any Apple employees ever used one of the 8GB devices in real life.

> especially from Sony.

That seems like an odd jab, given Sony are rolling 7 out for discontinued models. Compare with Samsung who axe updates in less than a year in some cases.

Who does better?

> the same can't be said for most Android devices especially from Sony.

I guess that might be true for most Sony devices - but my z3+ recently got updated to Android 7 - and the "high end" Sony phones have pretty decent open source support:

https://developer.sonymobile.com/open-devices/list-of-device...

Now, I would indeed like to see even better updates (like 7.1 ota) - but so far my experience with Sony is better than other android manufacturers.

On the other hand k-9 just slowed to a crawl - not sure if it's a coincidence with having a "big" inbox and downloading the last 1000 messages - but I fear not.

I'm also a convert from a 2013 Moto X which I absolutely adored. I looked for an entire year for another decent, solid, affordable android phone that I could fit in a pocket easily (4.7"ish). No dice. The pixel looked good but was too expensive. I switched grudgingly to an SE, which cost around 200 bucks less at the time. Couldn't be happier.

I am using the Z5 compact with Android 7. It runs great! Doesn't get hot, great camera and battery.

I love mine, especially when I'm out in the bush where it'll survive ten days on ultra battery saver mode thingy. On the other hand, I have to admit that mine does get uncomfortably hot at times. If they could replace the Snapdragon 810 it would be the perfect phone.

I'd love something with the form factor of the new 3310 and the ability to do maps/navigation. I'd be all over that in a heartbeat.

All the late-generation dumbphones from companies like Sony Ericsson/Nokia had J2ME navigation apps. E.g. I remember using Wayfinder for navigation http://news.softpedia.com/news/Sony-Ericsson-039-s-GPS-Hands...

Yes, I'd love this too -- the killer app of smartphones is navigation. I'd be better off leaving the house without HN and Facebook in my pocket, but knowing how to get where I'm going without a paper map pre-written directions is really hard to give up.

How about a 3310-like phone that works as a portable wifi hub? Then you could use the phone for communication and a tablet/ laptop for anything else. Would battery life be awful though?

In 2006 I had an extra Nokia dumbphone in my backpack just for Bluetooth tethering. Unlimited GPRS was cheap and the web was not yet shitty. I only had to charge it once or twice a week even though I used it every day on the commute.

But for maps/navigation, you could just use a tablet or laptop with offline maps (e.g. maps.me).

I can't agree more. Seems like such an a NB feature to skimp on. I might even still buy this for the SD card / bluetooth, which I want for playing music, but the lack of GPS really kills it's chances of being a primary phone.

Nokia released such phone back in 2010: http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_2710_navigation_edition-3051.p...

I just went there hoping it included GPS... I agree that would be awesome.. Perfect running / backup emergency phone

I'm ditching my iPhone 7 for the 3310.

I too wish Sony would field a compelling compact Android device.

The iPhone SE is really great, my only complaint is the 64gb limit. Rumors of a 128gb on the way though.

The Z3C wasn't a bad device. The Z5C is awful, primarily due to a processor that overheats at the drop or a hat, causing the entire phone to be unacceptably slow. (neither are even all that small, but by 2017 Android standards they're tiny)

More crucially, their support is awful - I had to send both a Z3C and Z5C in for repair shortly after receiving them, and in both instances they kept onto the phones for more than a month because they didn't have available parts. And with the Z5C refused to admit that it overheats. On that basis alone I can't justify buying another Sony device.

I sent a Z3C in for replacement due to water damage, and a new one was delivered very quickly. Two days, according to the old tracking messages in my email.

This was in the EU though.

Same here with a Z3. Water damage, they sent me a new one (different color, though).

Much less good experience here on Z3C return. First failure (randomly lost network, etc.) they repaired it, but it came back with more things broken. Returned that one and got a new one with a badly glued screen. Used until screen cracked, then returned it. They held onto it for a few months while they moved their warranty service from El Paso to the Midwest. Then returned it unrepaired with a won't fix note...

I sent a z3c in under adh warranty and they issued me a full refund, 20 months in.

There are plenty of small Android devices - down to at least 2.4" screens - on Aliexpress.

they border on unusable

depending on the one you get, duh

what's wrong with X Compact? I have the X and it's ok

Seconded - I have the x-compact, which I mainly bought for dev stuff, but have ended up really liking it. It's nice and small, battery is pretty decent, and camera is very good.

And the camera button is a godsend if you spend time outdoors. Do all Sony phones have that?

Yeah definitely- also seems to hold up in the rain outside. I have no idea about the camera button- my previous phone was a nokia windows phone which also had that, so I just assumed it was a standard thing for phones these days.

Apparently, since Android 7 you can double click the power button to go straight to camera. So it's sort of a camera button for all phones. You don't get the two stage button for locking focus though.

Thirded, upgraded my Z3c to the X compact and I'm very pleased.

I replied above - I haven't actually gotten to try an X Compact. But had to send a Z3C and Z5C in for repairs (both were faulty when I received them) and the experience was bad enough that I don't trust Sony for support any more.

Excellent phone, but after a Z3C I'm missing the extra battery life.

Does anybody remember the X10 mini? (http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_xperia_x10_mini-3125.p...) That was a great phone, I know one person that still uses it because of its small size and having Android!

I'd probably be also using it if it supported a newer Android version.

I still have one in a box in the loft :-)

My wife used it, and it was a lovely wee phone. I really wanted the X10 Mini Pro, but for various reasons missed out.

Glad we've kept the X10 Mini, for reminiscing at least!

I do :-)

I had the Xperia X8 and still have the Xperia Ray, would also love a current device using that form factor...

same boat here. there's hope if iphone 8 goes bezel-less that they can fit a 5" screen in a form factor not significantly bigger than a se, but it's speculation for now. I skipped the SE tho because why pay flagship prices for previous gen hardware? if a new se appears it needs to be on current-gen hardware or at a significant lesser price (europe pricing is mad btw)

I'm committed to the app store, but if the apple offering doesn't change I'm gonna jump to android right after the 8 announcement. googling around the samsung a3 seems a solid midrange offer (albeit I'm worried about operating system not getting updates) for the pocketable for factor

Me too. Sony's Xperia Compact series was quite good.

I think the new thing though is going to be same sized screens with smaller bezels, resulting in smaller phones. Samsung and LG's upcoming flagships both look to be substantially shrinking the bezel.

I had a ton of build quality issues with my Z3 compact (as did pretty much everyone I knew who had the phone). Quite a bit online about the flaky build quality as well. Unsure if the Z5 was any better as I opted for the Samsung A3 after that

Yeah me too. I have small hands and want to be able to use my phone with one hand but there haven't really been any phones like that in the last five years. Sony's Xperia U was pretty nice but too low on ram.

I'm a happy owner of Sony Xperia X Compact. Really great quality compact phone.

My only gripe is software buttons so quite a bit of screen estate is taken by the button bar.

Moto G (first version) are small, and they run LineageOS.

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