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Comment by edw519 | Hacker News Reader

I end up snubbing them a few months in because they become so pushy.

You may not want to hear this, but you just answered your own original question: you lose interest because you don't care.

I can't imagine "snubbing" anyone, much less my own customer. And I know lots of people that would give almost anything for a customer. You may not realize it now, but the "pushy" customers are the best ones, especially when you're first starting out.

Go pursue some other passion. Leave the start-ups for those of us who really care about the people we service.

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Bullshit. Some customers are not worth having. Learning who is not your customer is important.

Examples:

• You offer a self-service product and someone comes along and wants extensive hand-holding for the self-service price.

• You offer an SMB product and an enterprise comes along and wants enterprise level customization and support at the SMB price.

Less obvious:

• You offer an SMB product and think you can make an enterprise sale. You get distracted from your core audience and overextended.

There are different types of "pushy" customers, some who are simply adamant about their needs and will teach you about your own offering and some who are simply hard-nosed. In the prior case, if your product hasn't been validated in the market it may mean that you're just wrong in your assumptions and need to adjust, but if it has been it may be an indicator that you've stepped too far away from your target market.

Your examples are prospects, not customers.

You're right, some prospects should not be converted into customers. But existing customers should be treated with respect and not abandoned. Their "pushiness" is a symptom of a larger problem which needs to be identified and solved one way or the other.

Not quite sure where the "bullshit" came from.

In non-enterprise sales often there is no prospect before someone becomes a customer – i.e. they just sign up. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that's the case in most web startups. As such there's often an (ideally small) segment of paying customers that are outside of the market you can service well with your offering and if they become pushy (i.e. begin making requests / demands that pull you away from your target market) it would be better if they were not a customer than for the company to lose focus trying to make them happy.

My most pushy customers are my best customers, they really care about the product and want to improve it themselves, the 'outlet' I give them is they can mail me directly and I'll always take them serious. If something is not feasible I tell them why.

The haughtiness is really unhelpful in gaining insight from a dilemma that many people encounter to various degrees. He's mentioned that this issue is applicable to his endeavors in general, not just startups. People can be involved in business and startups for various reasons, not just a personal sense of ideological purity.

haughtiness is really unhelpful

Sorry if it seemed like that; it certainly wasn't my intention. OP asked a question and then provided some clear data: any attitude toward your customers is your problem, not theirs.

People can be involved in business and startups for various reasons, not just a personal sense of ideological purity.

I believe that caring for your customers is necessary but not sufficient for any business. I also believe that if one doesn't believe that, then they shouldn't be in business. Period. No "ideological purity" here, just basic functionality.

How long will you try to teach you child to walk before you give up? Ask that to any parent, and they'll look at you like you're from Jupiter. Then they'll give the obvious answer, "I will never give up until my child walks!"

I feel the same way about helping my customers solve their problems. And if OP felt that way, his 6 month attention span problem would just disappear. That's all.

I'm in agreement with you about customers after reading the astute distinction you mentioned to Wheels (prospects vs. converted customers). Once you've curated a stable base of good customers you absolutely must tend to them and that relationship can be very enlightening.

My only issue with your reply to OP was that it seemed unnecessarily sharp in tone ("Go pursue some other passion. Leave the start-ups for those of us who really care") and addressed an effect ("snubbing customers") of his problem rather than trying to untangle the source of the problem itself (being addicted to inertia but lacking grit).

I didn't read even the slightest snub in edw's remarks. I also can't imagine snubbing someone with whom I have any sort of relationship. And when I hear "pushy customer," I hear cash register noises.

Sure, let me rephrase, because you're righ. I do care.

I definitely set unrealistic expectations for my customers, as identified below. In the past I've been bad about overpromising and then spreading our dev resources thin, which definitely contributes to this feeling that customers are pushy (because they don't get what we've promised).

This is something I've gotten better at recently, but still remains a major pain point: Keeping customers happy with the CURRENT featureset rather than promising new things.

I would say it's one of my greatest weaknesses.

Awesome, you've identified one of your biggest weaknesses. Also, you've gotten better at it recently.

It seems to me like you need some time to work on that. For me, learning to say "no" and establishing my authority to clients regarding the direction of a project was HARD. It took me at least 2 years from the first time I noticed to get to a point that I could run a project pretty damn smoothly.

Also, I suggest you take some time off. Like, a day or two just hiking / playing around / having sex / whatever. Just go outside and so something away from computers and away from your customer's emails. Then come back with an objective mission of taking care of shit in a prioritized way.

Thats my last advice : write down what needs to be accomplished and check it off. Do it each week or monthly at first and eventually you'll be banging them out daily and feeling stoked.

Good luck!

Thanks Wolf. This is honestly my favorite post of the entire thread. Your advice is on point and speaks from personal experience :) Appreciate it!

I'm taking a few days off this weekend during the holiday. Hoping for the best :D

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