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pitt1980

Columbia has 8,410 undergraduates

University of Illinois has 32,878 undergraduates

the 75% SAT score for the college of engineering at University of Illinois was 1530 (no writing, so out of 1600)

https://admissions.illinois.edu/Apply/Freshman/profile

the 75% SAT score at Columbia was 2330 (including writing so 2330 * 2/3 = 1553.33333333

https://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/classprofile/2019

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the top 25% of a place like university of Illinois (and a lot of other big state schools like it), probably represents a critical mass of intelligent young people that would be pretty competitive with ivy league schools

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also, while ivy league school give out generous amounts of aid, Illinois students aren't filtered by exactly how generous a discount the financial aid office wants to give on at 55k a year tuition (I suspect the top 25% does pretty well scholarship money wise at Illinois too)

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> University of Illinois has 32,878 undergraduates

That's a fair point. It'd be interesting if YC could do some sort of data analysis on attendance for their events at a big state school vs. an elite school.

> Illinois students aren't filtered by exactly how generous a discount the financial aid office

Most elite universities are need-blind.

Spreading these myths does a disservice to smart, poor kids. Thinking they can't possibly get in, or afford it if they do, dissuades many of the underrepresented students from applying. That's part of why I push back so hard when people try to spread bullshit or the notion that you can only go to Harvard if you're rich.

> I suspect the top 25% does pretty well scholarship money wise at Illinois too

I can tell you that elite universities were a lot more generous with scholarships for me (smart, poor kid) than any lower tier schools.

> need-blind

Only goes so far. They don't offer aid to students wishing to take SAT prep courses. Admissions criteria include vague things like oddball extracurriculars. It's an interesting coincidence that wealthy people tend to engage in the same activities that top schools consider signals of a "well-rounded" applicant.

Oh please. You can do plenty of SAT prep at the library. My parents certainly couldn't afford an SAT prep course for me. The effect of such courses is vastly overblown—they mostly just sit you down with the same books you can get for free at the library (or for $20 on Amazon).

There are plenty of "oddball" extracurriculars that rural poor students can engage in. My admissions essay was literally about hiking with an ancient backpack covered in duct tape.

Your personal experience is contradicted by some systematic studies. Unfortunately I don't have the citations nearby, but I'm sure if you search Google Scholar you'll find that you are an unusual person.

I think you're overestimating the extent that SAT prep courses play in college admissions compared to, say, personal tutors or involved parents who have knowledge about the particular rituals needed to get into good schools.

I should add that while it's true a child can visit the library to study for the SAT, it seems that's not very common.

I looked up some articles about SAT prep, reports say preparing for the test increases scores about 25 points on average. I'm not sure whether that was from the 2400 or 1600 test.

Not that it matters, but I'm sort of confused as to what lower tier schools you applied to

At every state school whose scholarship packages I'm familiar with (granted sample size of 3, plus antedotally maybe 5 or so more), an applicant with your SAT scores would have almost certainly been offered a full ride, probably with a stipend as well

I should probably have left out the last point as it was a distraction from the overall point

whether what's dissuading them from going to ivy league schools are myths or not, the larger point, is that big state schools tend to have pretty (statistically) good critical masses at the top of them

Is Illinois really a good choice for contrast with Columbia? Yes it is a state school, so it has less elite-sounding brand than Columbia, but UI actually outranks Columbia in most STEM fields.

it probably has scores on the high side for state schools, sure

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