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Comment by scholia | Hacker News Reader

Immigrants are actually more law-abiding than US citizens and they are less likely to end up in jail. [1,2]

Immigrants and the children of immigrants are also disproportionately likely to be productive citizens. I wouldn't be surprised if half the current Fortune 500 were founded by immigrants and the children of immigrants. (The figure for 2010 was 40%.) See my comment below. [3]

It's certainly possible that the majority of America's wealth is generated by relatively recent immigrants.

Of course, this is controlled immigration. No country anywhere lets just anybody in.

[1] http://www.vox.com/2015/7/9/8922783/immigrants-crime-donald-...

[2] https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/criminal...

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13576840

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I don't have any stats to back this up, but could it be that immigrants are more law abiding because they have to pass the long and difficult process that verifies them? If the system were to change in such a way that more people can immigrate to the US it seems very likely that a lot of the people who would not be granted citizenship would be the type of people who Americans would not want.

If we look at France or Sweden, two countries who excepted a lot of migrants, we can see that the results are not so good. Sweden is now ranked as the country with the most reported rapes [1] and France has areas where the police are afraid to enter [2] .

Think about immigrations like drugs (medical ones). There are many drugs that can save many peoples lives but are not able to pass the FDA for whatever reason (eg. lack of money). While it is sad that people will die because of that, if most drugs were allowed to be marketed by doctors, many more people could die. Similarly with immigration, currently a lot of people who have the potential of adding a lot of value to America are not allowed in. However, if most people were allowed in, it could cause a lot more damage to America.

[1] https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/pics/large/932.jpg [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-go_area#France

Immigrants or illegal immigrants?

To become a legal immigrant in America takes a lot of effort. It's almost like saying people of new money are less likely to go to jail.

As for illegal immigrants I've got no idea as to how many bad actors there are.

However I'll give a stat that many liberals in Europe failed to realize. Their are many people in this world that do not like Western culture. E.g take Muslims around the world wanting sharia law (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religi...). We shouldn't block immigrants from coming to the us. But we should only allow immigrants who will "melt" and become part of the American melting pot.

> To become a legal immigrant in America takes a lot of effort.

I wish someone would explain this to Donald Trump. He is currently lying his head off about immigrants "pouring in" as though Homeland Security didn't even exist. Just visiting the USA is a huge pain for many people.

I've been hassled entering the USA on a 5-year visitor's visa (in fact, on 25 years of 5-year visitor's visas) with hotels booked, return tickets booked, and a well-paying job, house, wife and pension in my country of origin.

Many people have been handcuffed imprisoned and deported for entering on the wrong visa, including one woman who had an American husband, an American-born child, and several years of living as a permanent resident in the USA.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/05/usa.weekend7

> Immigrants or illegal immigrants?

Both. Illegal immigrants are generally keen to avoid any contact with a legal system that might deport them.

Either way, the USA has almost no illegal immigrants who are Muslims. Almost all Mexicans are Christians (88% Catholics). Most Cubans are Catholics as well (60%).

Indeed, the USA has very few legal immigrants who are Muslim either. "According to a new estimate in 2016, there are 3.3 million Muslims living in the United States, about 1% of the total U.S. population." At least a quarter of those are US-born Americans like Mohammad Ali, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaq O'Neal, Mos Def, Busta Rhymes, Yusef Lateef etc.

"According to a 2004 telephone survey of a sample of 1,846 Muslims conducted by the polling organization Zogby, the respondents were more educated and affluent than the national average, with 59% of them holding at least an undergraduate college degree."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States

Immigrants are less likely to get caught, not more law abiding. In my city we have persistent problems where crime victims won't report to the police because they're illegal just like the criminals.

That quickly adds up to lower crime statistics in illegal communities. It does not mean less crime in those communities.

In fact, it creates conditions for ongoing gang crime operations unchallenged in those communities.

> Immigrants are less likely to get caught, not more law abiding

And your evidence for that claim is...?

Trump's grandpa was a German immigrant.

Frederick Trump was a German American businessman. Born in Kallstadt, in the Kingdom of Bavaria, he emigrated to the United States at the age of 16 and started working as a barber. Several years later in 1891

https://g.co/kgs/vB6Er8

Also, Donald Trump's mother was a Scottish immigrant, Mary Anne Macleod. Donald Trump's wife is a Slovenian immigrant who appears to have worked illegally (as a nude model) in the USA.

There's an old joke about immigrants doing dirty jobs that Americans won't do, and being married to Donald Trump may be one of them...

The Trump family lied about being Swedish, though more recently, Donald has aired his pride in his superior German genes.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/9/29/1575870/-Shocking-vi...

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