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Comment by psankar | Hacker News Reader

The new thinkpad keyboards are absolutely shitty. I am happy that more people are complaining about it. The classic thinkpad keyboard had nice ergonomic aspects. You can touch-type the function keys without looking down, because they are all grouped in four. The arrow keys are proper sized buttons (even the macbook has it wrong). There is a slight curvature on each key's surface that makes it easy for the finger to feel the borders. All of these are missing in the new keyboards. This chiclet design is the worst thing to happen for the thinkpads.

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> You can touch-type the function keys without looking down, because they are all grouped in four.

This is true. The new Fkeys are not grouped.

> The arrow keys are proper sized buttons (even the macbook has it wrong).

This is false, look at the linked image[1] and tell me that the arrow keys are different on the new keyboard.

> There is a slight curvature on each key's surface that makes it easy for the finger to feel the borders.

This is also false. The chicklet keys are slightly concave and the island layout makes it extremely easy to feel the borders of each key.

> All of these are missing in the new keyboards.

Again, this is false.

> This chiclet design is the worst thing to happen for the thinkpads.

This is subjective. I have both keyboards, and I like the new style better. I'm a linux user and I use vim. I've probably pressed the Fkeys 10s of times in the years I've owned either laptop. The entire row could be removed and I probably wouldn't even notice.

It's fine if you don't like the new keyboard, but the reasons you are giving are simply not true.

[1] https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ksPFqBdMikM/maxresdefault.jpg

Caveat: I'm entirely going off your image[1]. I have neither laptop.

>> The arrow keys are proper sized buttons (even the macbook has it wrong).

> This is false, look at the linked image[1] and tell me that the arrow keys are different on the new keyboard.

Looks like the old laptop has a different height for Left, Right, and Down compared to Up, PageUp, PageDown. Is that really the case? If so, that'd be a pretty noticeable difference for a user of the original design.

>> There is a slight curvature on each key's surface that makes it easy for the finger to feel the borders.

> This is also false. The chicklet keys are slightly concave and the island layout makes it extremely easy to feel the borders of each key.

Just going off the shadow from your image, there's a marked and well-defined difference between the concavity. If my fingers were used to that concavity, I'd be unhappy with the much, much flatter design.

Arguing that he's propagating falsehoods is overshooting. That said, I thought it was pretty bad-ass you had both laptops and took a photo for us.

[1] https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ksPFqBdMikM/maxresdefault.jpg

> Just going off the shadow from your image, there's a marked and well-defined difference between the concavity. If my fingers were used to that concavity, I'd be unhappy with the much, much flatter design.

They are a little less concave than the older keys, but they aren't flat. The lighting in that picture isn't the same for both laptops. [1] is a better angle.

> That said, I thought it was pretty bad-ass you had both laptops and took a photo for us.

It's not my photo, though I do have a t420s and an x230, just not an x220 :-)

[1] http://blog.lenovo.com/images/uploads/blog/CS12KBD_180degree...

> This is false, look at the linked image[1] and tell me that the arrow keys are different on the new keyboard.

Notice the difference between the old and new keyboards, in the ratio of the difference between the touchable area of the arrow keys (up and down) with the control key. Also in the old keyboard, on the top of the down arrow key, there is a line which will help feel the difference in the keys. In the new keyboard, that plastic line on the down key is moved to the bottom. If I keep the finger in the keyboard, it is not easy for me to feel if I am in the up key or the down key without looking at the keyboard. This is my personal thing and you may not feel the same.

> The chicklet keys are slightly concave

The keyboard that I tried is almost flat. Even if it was slightly concave, they are no way close to the original curviness in the classic keyboard. Even in your image you can see that. That curvature is clearly feel-able for my fingers.

> This is subjective.

Agreed. All these are subjective. I just stated my opinion. We don't have to agree :) I did a typing test and I was able to reach about 100 words per minute in the old keyboard but could go only up to 80 words or so. I was using the old keyboard for long. It is possible that I would have reached the same speed with the chiclet keyboard too if I had spent more time, but I have lost interest with the new keyboard by then.

Funnily enough the curvature was the reason I didn't like Thinkpad before.

Now, after moving to chiclet, I find Thinkpad keyboards (especially T series) to be the best on the market.

I have both and can't really say which one i like most, they are both great.

There are however a lot of cheap ideapads and lenovo chromebooks with really awful chiclet keyboards. Avoid at all cost!

My Thinkpad keyboard still has the function keys grouping (Esc-F1-F2-F3-F4 F5-F6-F7-F8 F9-F10-F11-F12 Home-End-Insert-Delete). I think it's only the first generation of chiclet keyboards (the one used in T430) that didn't have it, and they fixed it later.

Have you actually tried the new keyboards?

The X240 chiclet keyboard is excellent, I enjoy every moment of typing on it. The only better keyboards are the mechanical ones, which are way too thick for a laptop.

(And function keys ARE grouped in four!!!)

> (And function keys ARE grouped in four!!!)

Ah, looks like just the 30 series lacked the grouping, they brought it back on the 40 series.

Maybe, but the new MacBook Pro keyboard is so loud I have been banned from the bedroom with my laptop. (TouchBar is also terrible.) What a disaster.

That's funny. I remember my audiophile pals back in the day ooo'ing and ahhh'ing over the old mbp's keyboard being satisfyingly quiet-but-not-silent.

Really? I can understand someone complaining about a keyboard with Cherry MX Blue switches, but a laptop? :D

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