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Comment by thyselius | Hacker News Reader

I'm making enough money to live on from apps I released last year. I don't know what to do with my time. Freedom is of course wonderful but I don't _feel_ it, I often long for the office context of a good Swedish workplace. You need to feel you accomplish something every day, and (good) work does that.

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> You need to feel you accomplish something every day, and (good) work does that.

Work (good or bad) is a crutch many people rely on to feel as though they're accomplishing something.

I didn't work for 2 years (by choice) and never felt as if I lacked purpose and never felt the need to "accomplish something everyday."

Instead I exercised, read, watched TV, relaxed. I was constantly amazed by the number of people who said they'd hate that sort of routine.

> I exercised, read, watched TV, relaxed. I was constantly amazed by the number of people who said they'd hate that sort of routine.

I'd be board out of my mind. You'll never pull me away from computer(s), programming, terminals, and all the lot. I know many people in computer science like me. Computers are not a job, they are a way of life so much so that I find ways to fill my free time with more of them.

I know many people like me. One such (retired) person, who I will not name, has actually spent money to work for my current employer. He's done construction/demolition, data processing, data agregation, and goes to the north pole for us sometimes. He's a great guy who loves what he does and I don't think he'll be able to stop... ever.

I'm very much the same way. I love the work I get to do and I've done a lot of it for free just because I enjoy doing it. I also do freelance work with computers and I'm trying to break into other fields like machining, welding, and electronics. When I retire I'll keep doing that. Making things is just fun for me.

I'm a welder by trade, spent two years in ISP tech support and then two years in a data centre.

I love making things. My current day job is operating a 4kw laser cutter in a metal fabrication shop.

Is it CNC or do you do this by hand? I've always thought those things were cool but I'll never in my life be able to afford one because of all of the ansilary safety gear you need. I'm assuming you need serious HVAC, power, optics gear, and know how.

Good for you man, keep making cool stuff.

Then after a while you get interested in how TV is made, how books are written, how a screenplay is constructed. Or how a surfboard is made, or how to paint.

Then suddenly you have too many things to do. Kites to fly, surfboards to wax, opensource to patch.

Free time is lovely.

Boredom is great. Get bored. Go for a walk. End up running home to set up another AWS project that you just thought of.

I agree. I probably still wouldn't get myself to exercise much, but I know I'd spend a lot of time reading books, coding random stuff and learning new off-line skills.

It seems to me like there are different kinds of personality. I'm having a hard time treating my job as anything but a sacrifice of my time better spent elsewhere, that I need to do to afford the necessities. On the other hand, I know people who like having a job - among other reasons, because it creates a rhytm in their lives, much like a clock signal in digital electronics.

Been 3.5 year for me. I hate it. I hate being isolated. I hate going for days without seeing anyone (they're at work and have families after work). I have done many personal projects but they are not as fulfilling for me as team projects done physically together.

That said I left my last job because it didn't provide those things. No teamwork (project so big none was needed)

I left work just over a year ago because it just wasn't going anywhere (and it didn't leave any time to travel), and rarely done team work etc, but after a few months travelling I started to miss work, having people to chat with each day and help out. Now I'm finding it hard to find another employer as good or better as my previous one. I think it's allot about the people you work with, and less so the company.

Maybe it's a personality thing (based on the wide variety of contributions here), because I'm totally with you, and the others who say they prefer freedom and no "work." I like my area of specialization (data science), and I have a great employer, but I always crave freedom. I will hopefully eventually do my own thing with enough success that I can have lots of time to read, spend with family, explore the world, sleep, eat, relax, write, design board games, and basically just march to the beat of my own drum.

“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.” - Blaise Pascal

I think a lot of people crave work or spend all their "alone" time having a relationship with a computer because they are not comfortable in their own skin.[0]

[0] I say that because it applies 100% to me.

> Work (good or bad) is a crutch many people rely on to feel as though they're accomplishing something.

That seems unfair, since "crutch" in that context usually refers to something used to overcome an injury or disorder. But wanting regular structured work isn't a bad thing, just like your exercise/reading/TV/relaxation isn't a "crutch." Different people like different stuff.

> I didn't work for 2 years (by choice)

I'd love to know how you managed that. Somehow built up an enormous savings and then blew it over 2 years? You are very fortunate to have been able to do that!

You don't need an enormous savings.Just live on less.

Make 100k for 2 years, spending 25k to live per year. So you have 150k in savings - taxes, lets round down to 100k.

You can now go 4 years without working.

I know people that do similar things... can use it to fund an indy game, or just play videogames for a few years.

I guess you don't plan on retiring early in that case.

Very true. But it has some benefits. I.e. you could potentially have 6 or 10 years in your 20s and 30s without work. Vs working til day 50 and only having older less active years to be off.

2 years off in my 20s felt pretty much like retirement. Loved it.

Yep, I worked for 4 years at ~$45k/y, spending nothing, and just had a year off, started by travelling for a few months and chilling for the last few, had the best time of my life, even started doing some side projects which I hadn't done since Uni, and really missed. Sadly I've run out of $$$ now and looking for some work.

I know it can be risky taking such a break from a career but I think it was worth it, I gained some great travel experience and better understand what I want out of life.

Make 100k for 2 years?? I scrape together 25k as junior dev. I really wonder how you manage that in your 20s.

Depending on where you are you are dramatically underpaid.

Western Europe. I feel the same as you do.

My example assumed US reasonable size city salaries.

Yeah, I made much less than that ~$40K (2007-2010) and ended up saving around $50k during that time. Just have to have not many expenses.

Now I earn more and spend more, too, lol. Enjoy it just the same though.

yeah, basically lived frugally for a few years, saved up about $50K USD, didn't spend much beyond rent ($550/month for a studio apartment in Portland, OR in 2010), food, utilities.

Ended up rejoining the working world when I saw a job ad for something that was "perfect" based on skills I had, interviewed and got it.

Well, in Sweeden you can't go out and enjoy your country in Winter, it is just so cold and dark to do anything but stay indoors, read a book,play and instrument, play computers...all artificial things, specially after working in front of a computer for hours.

This will make you go out of balance or you will burn out.

My advice is for you to take a month or so and travel in Winter to other countries if you are young. Go to Argentina, it is now summer there, or Indonesia, or Morocco.

Making apps means you are free to travel and even continue working. Your money is worth 20x more or so in Argentina than Sweden.

Usually you could stay out of your country 6 months or so without fiscal problems. If you try it odds are you won't believe how you could live without it, but start small taking one month out at first.

I did it myself because I also started creating software. Now traveling the world is routine and for me staying in places like Boston, Chicago or Sweden in winter does not make lots of sense.

Thus frustrates me very much. As someone who has too many things they want to do to possibly fit them all in, I can't even imagine the thought of wanting to go back to 9 - 5 just to kill time. I could name twenty things off the top of my head I'd do if I was you.

Working 9 - 5 is a sad necessity so I can pay for rent, bills, my car to drive to my 9 - 5, my dentist, etc. And I have to give up on my dreams because of it. Please please use your time wisely.

Do you have kids/elderly parents to take care of/etc.? I can imagine that lifestyle working really well for people with caregiving obligations.

You could try volunteering, or otherwise finding a cause and working on it?

You still have the freedom to do that though. You can go back and work in a "good old Swedish workplace" if you want. While I don't necessarily agree with the idea that 9 to 5 is slavery (or that there isn't a way to live within your means and save enough to keep quitting on the table as an option), the message of this article is for those of us who do not have the freedom to choose to do something entirely different that may not actually generate income.

Volunteer for stuff and/or teach people. Feeding the poor for a couple of weeks can be really enlightening and rewarding. Teching app development to some kids as extra curricula activity is also quite a lot of fun.

If you're just missing the office I suppose the only real alternative is getting a job again. At least you can apply for the "craziest things you've always wanted to do" given your situation :)

You need to feel you accomplish something every day, and (good) work does that.

That's great for you, but of course Bukowski wasn't thinking of the "have your cake and eat it, too" world of tech workers in 2017 (who are generally overpaid and/or get to do what they love most of the time -- and quite often, subject to both fates).

But rather, you know, regular people.

Tech workers are not overpaid.

He probably wanted to say they're paid above average. In the same way doctors are not overpaid.

In America at least there is an artificial scarcity of doctors, so that that comparison isn't fair.

*some

I don't like doing tech work, it's really repetitive and you don't get to work on what you want.

Then go work in a Swedish workplace part time. :)

hey this got me curious on your life because it sounds like my dreamlife! ^^ do you have a website or anything?

I was also curious! I dug through his comments and found this:

https://medium.com/@thyselius

and

https://itunes.apple.com/us/developer/inlovewith-ab/id666807...

I think these are his.

A little bit of comment digging brought me this:

https://itunes.apple.com/se/developer/inlovewith-ab/id666807...

Learn an instrument or craft?

Travel.

I would read the fable, The Ant and the Grasshopper.

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