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Comment by Waterluvian | Hacker News Reader

It's interesting how perspective matters so much. I grew up in Ontario, work for a tech startup here. One visit to silicon valley convinced me that I never want to work there. I hated the culture, I hated the lazy weather and accompanying attitude. I hated driving everywhere. I hated the prices.

Winter is probably a huge shock to many, but I think it builds character and can-do attitude. Plus hockey.

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I have a hard time believing that you can gather that much about "culture" from one visit.

I spent two months living in Toronto again as an adult after 10 years living in Mountain View and then San Francisco, and I hated:

- the lack of interesting tech jobs

- the lack of culture

- the terrible weather with no upsides (Ontario is so topographically boring and you have to get on a very expensive flight to get anywhere interesting)

I agree with you. I'm talking about how much perspective matters. None of my feelings about SF are really evidence backed.

Bay Area probably provides the best access to all things outdoor with a relatively short distance: - Water sports/fishing: Ocean/bay, rivers, lakes.

- Hiking/Camping: Most of CA with deeply varying terrain, from thick forests to mountains to plains/desert.

- Snow: Mammoth, Yosemite, Tahoe.

- Motorsport: Laguna Seca, Sonoma Raceway, Willow Springs.

- Wine: Napa, Sonoma, Paso Robles and the surrounding areas of each.

SoCal gets a lot of that too, but usually more driving/flying involved.

You also don't get very extreme weather, but you do get earthquakes.

All-in-all, I'd say CA scores really well for all kinds of active lifestyles, but the big negative is the cost of living coupled with CA taxes. If you don't mind a bit more cold and fewer jobs (slightly fewer?), Seattle becomes super appealing.

Outside of some silly things that the CA gov does (why does everything cause cancer lol? Why are there like 15 transit agencies in the bay area?) my move to here from Texas was like seeing what the world can really be like. In Houston, if I wanted to hike, I had to wake up early and make a 2 hour drive for the good ones. Might as well just go on to Austin. If I wanted to camp, there was ONE good place within an hour drive, otherwise, going on up to Austin or Enchanted Rock.

But in mountain view, I can go straight from work to Rancho San Antonio. If I'm feeling a one nighter backpacking trip, Henry W Coe is an hour and a half drive. Big Sur. That volcanic area north of Berkeley. Dayhike opportunities are too numerous to count. I love it.

"why does everything cause cancer lol?"

Because with 150k signatures, you can get any weird ass proposition you want for a state-wide vote. And in 1986, voters decided that we needed to be warned about every little thing that might cause cancer.

Prop 65 has nothing to do with the CA gov. It's the voting public that made it happen.

Swiss have direct voter initiatives and it seems to have worked out well for them. Even if some may disagree with specific ones.

Boulder Colorado is the most active city in North America. It's got some good tech jobs opportunities too, though not quite as good as the Bay.

I also grew up in Ontario (Toronto), but I work in SF for a tech company. I've lived in SF for 4 years, and before that lived in Toronto.

I love the sunshine here, the lack of snow, the lack of having to shovel driveways, the close proximity to stuff like hiking and skiing if I want to, the relative lack there of extreme weather (hot or cold). I can go running outdoors 12 months a year.

I don't own a car, and I don't have to drive anywhere. I have good work-life balance at work. They pay me a lot, even after taxes and cost of living (much more than I'd get in Toronto).

That being said, I wouldn't want to raise kids here. And the poverty/crime sucks a little bit.

I can't wait to retire to the suburbs of Toronto and raise some kids when I'm 30 :).

Winter is also more manageable (or entirely enjoyable!) if you simply leave the house. Buy proper clothes, learn to layer and find something you enjoy doing outside (hockey, skating, skiing, camping).

I too would go crazy if I stayed inside for months.

There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.

Come to Winnipeg. ;)

Exactly - when the weather report says "its dangerous to go outside" and "exposed skin will freeze in less than 1 minute", there's no amount of clothes that'll save you.

That isn't bad weather though, that's extreme weather.

I saw a CBC story on Winnipeggers and all the pedways. Maybe someday the entire city will be elevated walkways or maybe underground.

Then again cold is one thing but Cape Breton with 160 km/h winds on a typical stormy winter is nuts.

We need bubble cities here in Canada asap.

Nah don't worry. Global warming is on it's way.

It's true, the wind speeds will be much worse!

That Scandinavian quip has become a popular soundbite but they have a fairly stable climate, with only extremes of temperature and snowfall as a consideration in the most northerly regions. Their winds don't reach hurricane-force on land, which is fortunate as no clothes can help in that event.

For the most populated regions their climate is maritime mild-temperate ( to the west ) and continental ( east / south ) due to the Gulfstream. Certianly more mild than other regions at the same latitudes.

I wouldn't take their weather advice if I was going to Siberia, for example: average winter temperature in some areas there is -50 Celsius, which freeze your glasses to your face.

This is entirely true; however, most "bad" weather that keeps people indoors can be made very comfortable with an investment in a few pieces of appropriate clothing and a willingness to learn how to dress and stay dry in winter weather (which, I suppose, I'm defining as weather typical of northern US/southern Canada - not the Arctic).

Obviously there is extreme weather, but bad weather is wind,rain,snow,hail etc. Extreme weather is 3+ foot snow drifts, -25c daytome temp, 40+ mph wind, cyclones etc.

Depending on you, winter is more enjoyable when there are people on the streets. In bay area, this means most seasons are never "enjoyable" since all you see is cars

As I live in Minneapolis, I can assure you that the community continues to take advantage of the outdoors during winter - including a not insignificant number of bicycle commuters.

I have lived in MPLS and the bike scene there actually tiny compared to a real bike city like Boulder, Copenhagen, Tokyo... In MPLS they like to think that they bike a lot, but I just don't see it. In the winter almost nobody bikes, there is maybe 100 people in the whole city who do.

No doubt, but the American Community Survey still ranks Minneapolis relatively high for cities that commonly receive snow. Boulder is indeed higher as a percentage of population, though not in absolute number of bicycle commuters.

That's also tangential to my point - people can get outside and do stuff in "bad" weather if they want to (and will probably be happier if they do so).

California is silicon valley? Haha.

Let me introduce you the rest of the state. Many places are walkable as well, though you'll have to look a little harder.

and snowboarding/skiing, building snowmen. weather (i.e varieties of it) is actually great, hot and sunny every day and spending a fortune on AC is not that appealing.

Snowboarding/skiing options are a lot better in California than in Ontario. You can drive to Tahoe or you can cheaply and quickly fly to Utah (or Denver, Seattle, Jackson, ...).

(Source: I grew up in Toronto and lived in California for 10 years)

London and Silicon Valley are extremely different things.

I agree. The Valley struck me as a cross between north Jersey and Florida. Seemed like a place that was paradise on earth 50 years ago.

The west coast vibe is great though.

I love the weather in California, and in some areas of CA I really like the culture. Just not LA, MV, PA, Frisco. The prices suck and you do have to drive a lot. But we have those same two problems in the GTA (housing and car travel).

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