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Comment by TheRealDunkirk | Hacker News Reader

You and the grandparent are dancing around the increased costs. I just checked prices for the last flight I took to Europe, and the difference between economy and first class is (roughly) TEN TIMES. Hey, if $9,000 is to your budget what $900 is to mine, awesome! I've had first class once, for business, and, sure, it was great. I just wish they'd give us another couple of inches of legroom in economy. Just 2 inches! Take out, like 2 or 3 rows, and expand. I'm 6' and 250 lbs, and when someone reclines in front of me, the seat is literally 6 inches from my face! If they'd charge the extra for taking out those rows, the increase to the prices of the rest of the tickets would be minimal. I think they cram us in as tightly as humanly possible (literally) so that they can cajole more people into the first-class cabin and it's attendant price. It's not just awful; it's manipulative!

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I'm with you. I have issues with the literal class dynamic of airlines regardless. But when I look at how much more I'd be paying per hour for a modestly more comfortable chair, I quickly get to "no way, not ever" territory. Hell, when I had my wisdom teeth out, it was only $400/hr for the general anesthetic and I said no to that. If I ever spend thousands just for my personal comfort, it's going to be on something I end up owning and using for years.

> Hell, when I had my wisdom teeth out, it was only $400/hr for the general anesthetic and I said no to that.

You're a brave man. How was it?

i had mine taken out with local+nitrous (as opposed to going completely under) because the anesthesiologist wasn't in that day (apparently an oral surgeon can do the gas, but not the knockout drugs). i remember the whole thing. it was surprising how much force they used but other than that it was fine. i remember i had my ipod with me and tripped out to music while getting my face drilled.

as an adult it's probably better because there's no recovery time, they just take the nitrous away and you're good to drive yourself home (or to the pharmacy, to pick up your pain meds that you're definitely going to need) 2 minutes later.

the 2-3 weeks following extraction are 1000x worse than the actual procedure, which isn't bad at all.

Interesting, I didn't find the recovery very bad at all. I had general anesthetics and a script for oxycontin, but my mom was overprotective and wouldn't let me take anything more than ibuprofen. I don't recall even needing the ibuprofen after a day or two.

I thought it was fine. It was only 45 minutes, and I thought it was all pretty interesting. Thanks to the local anesthetic, there was very little pain. The parts I really didn't like all came over the next few days, but ice cream and video were enough to get me through.

Oh, I had only local anesthetic for mine, too. I got confused. I thought you meant without any anesthetic. It wasn't bad at all. I was just surprised at how much force they used. It sounded like hell, too, but no big deal.

I think they cram us in as tightly as humanly possible (literally) so that they can cajole more people into the first-class cabin and it's attendant price.

Domestic first-class cabins in the US have been shrinking (fewer seats), for what it's worth. And while international business-class cabins still usually have 20+ seats in them (and sometimes much more), you're correct in noting that they're much more expensive in relation.

The economics of running an airline hasn't changed. People still -- despite everything they complain about as a consequence -- shop exclusively for the lowest possible fare they can find anywhere, and damn the legroom and extra fees. Airlines, which need to maximize the revenue coming from the back end of the plane in order to stay profitable, know this and have responded by squeezing in more seats (witness the number of carriers now going to ten-across seating on international aircraft, switching to "slimline" seats and shaving more inches out of the legroom in order to add another row or two) and unbundling as much as they can into separate upsells to preserve that low advertised fare.

> Just 2 inches! Take out, like 2 or 3 rows, and expand.

The problem is that increasing the other basic economy tickets by the lost revenue (even all seats regardless of class) prices the seats out of competition, not to mention the costs in actually ripping the seats out, moving all the other seats, and getting the plane recertified/inspected.

> when someone reclines in front of me, the seat is literally 6 inches from my face

Serious question: would 8 inches be any better?

> I think they cram us in as tightly as humanly possible (literally) so that they can cajole more people into the first-class cabin and it's attendant price. It's not just awful; it's manipulative!

I think the intersection of people who can afford first class but who would consider taking basic economy with 8" of room but not 6" is exceedingly small.

>I just wish they'd give us another couple of inches of legroom in economy. Just 2 inches! Take out, like 2 or 3 rows, and expand. I'm 6' and 250 lbs, and when someone reclines in front of me, the seat is literally 6 inches from my face!

They offer this service on most airlines, it's called economy plus on United.

I love a couple inches more wide. Maybe instead of a 3-3 row, they could sell a 2-3 row. Or just make the damn planes wider.

Even when I was skin and bones, 169 lbs and 6'2", I couldn't comfortably fit in these 17 inch wide seats. My shoulders are too wide. Now that I've plumped up, it's basically impossible.

Hell, I'd just appreciate a thin seat divider that clearly makes sure I'm not spilling into someone else's room.

It's not always that much more expensive but yeah sometimes the asks are crazy. A year ago I booked a flight on Virgin Atlantic in Economy and they offered an upgrade to "Upper Class" (their term) for $500 roundtrip to Europe per person. That was great value.

United has "Economy Plus" which is more legroom. I'm 6'2" and I find it fine. My advice is to upgrade to that and pay extra for the exit row. If there are 2 exit rows then book the one behind the one in front. You can't recline into an exit row so with the second set of exit rows you get a ton of space and no one that can recline into you.

I always upgrade to economy plus but it's only marginally worth it. Yeah, I can actually get things out of my bag (instead of smashing my face against the seat in front of me and fumbling blindly), but it doesn't solve the elbow room issue which is the real problem on planes for anyone of average build.

Sometimes you can get a good deal on international business class.

I recently picked up a business class seat from Australia to LA for 4x the economy price.

Well worth it for the short trip and being able to get some sleep and work done in air.

I was able to score business class from Beijing to LA for $2k one way; at the time the lowest one way ticket I could find was $1500 (same as round trip, and we weren't coming back), so it worked well, especially with a pregnant wife.

Business class (as opposed to first) is still super nice and usually significantly less than 9k.

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