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Comment by lobster_johnson | Hacker News Reader

As someone who is considering moving from a MacBook Pro 2015 to a Linux laptop, the keyboard and, in particular, the trackpad on PC models are the biggest disappointments. Apple has spent so much effort on the tactility of their laptops, while PC manufacturers still seem to be stuck in an earlier decade. I was a little bit shocked to discover that Thinkpads still have that terrible little mouse nipple, which I hadn't seen in about 10 years.

The laptop with the most promising keyboard/trackpad combo, that I have found, is the Dell XPS (it has physical trackpad buttons, but at least they're located at the bottom), which is probably not accidental; it looks a lot like a MacBook, too.

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Counterpoint: I still use only Thinkpads because they have TrackPoint. For those of us who prefer it, it is vastly superior to trackpads.

Yeah, I was not a trackpoint fan in theory for a long time. Then I got a 4th gen X1 and I find myself using it almost exclusively. Not having to move my fingers off the keyboard trumps accuracy for me.

Completely agreed. I disable my trackpad and use the nipple exclusively. (And am stuck with thinkpads because of that preference. But I like my new X1 so I'm not too sad about that.)

As for the keyboard, my favorite was the "old thinkpad" keyboard (X220 generation), but I have to admit the new thinkpad keyboard is better than I expected. Travel and resistance are very comfortable. Compared the "new macbook" keyboard with tiny travel and those useless up/down keys, it's vastly better.

Toshiba have it as an option on their keyboards.

is it as good as the ones on the thinkpads?

i love it, but i wish it were a little less stiff. even turned up to the maximum sensitivity it's giving me rsi twinges.

Do you have other rubber caps to experiment with? In my experience they affect how much force is needed to move the pointer around (my favourite is the concave with the rim as you pull the rim rather than push the side of the dome...I've probably explained that badly but it's worth trying some different caps if you haven't already).

no, i didn't even know the caps were swappable out! i'll experiment with a concave cap if i can (work laptop, so i'd have to get it okayed first)

I hate the apple keyboards, and only use the trackpoint(mouse nipple) and disable my trackpad immediately. So to each their own.

Yeah Lenovo actually removed the trackpoint in one generation (t440?) and had to bring it back due to demand. Maybe it's an acquired taste.

They never took it away, they tried to switch the touchpad to an integrated unit in the *40 gen (240, 440, 540) (like how Apple does it) and had to revert it because (1) they did such a godawful job of the sensitivity and (2) integrated touchpad buttons don't make sense in conjunction with the trackpoint.

Well, it was truly a piece of shitty crap. Absolutely not comparable to how Apple does it - and by several order of magnitude... it was a soo huge disaster that they made sure to design the next model so people would be able to retrofit its touchpad with buttons on their Tx40...

"mouse nipple"s are the best. I used to be able to play single player FPS games with it because I got so comfortable with it.

Nicest part is you leave the keyboard very little so for the few things I used the mouse for I'd have it but otherwise it'd be out of my way.

That said, I prefer Apple's trackpads these days because over all Apple hardware has been better to me than ThinkPads.

The mouse nipple is what keeps me using thinkpads. Maybe if Apple includes a mouse nipple on their products I'll consider switching over.

Don't hold your breath on that one. We'd probably have something like "RSIgate" if Apple did that.

And besides, Apple's trackpad is best in class, they don't really need another mouse input.

As an involuntary user of a corporate-issued MBP 2015, I have to say that its keyboard bothers me quite a bit after many years of using Thinkpads, and even after MBP 2013.

The trackpad is nice, though; I almost don't miss the trackpoint any more, but I do miss the separate mouse buttons, and especially the middle button.

The Surface Pro 4 type cover, and I'd assume the Surface Book, both have a comparable keyboard and I'd say the trackpad is definitely as good as the Macbooks I've used or better (haven't used the latest of any model, but some older Pros and Airs)

Does the Surface Pro series have a model that's comparable to the MacBook Pro 15''? From what I can tell, they max out at 12'', 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD?

The "type cover" looks decent, but in the YouTube videos I find, it looks like it's less rigid/solid than a fully integrated keyboard. I see that some people prefer to detach it and use it flat on a solid surface for that reason.

You're supposed to go to the Surface Book line. And there's a Pro 4 model with 16GB of RAM and an 1TB SSD.

I think neither the Book nor the Pro are comparable to a 15'' MBP.

Book is 13.5'', Pro is 12.5'', too small for me. Both max out at a dual-core Core i7-6650U (it's hard to find out exactly, the specs don't say anywhere, but that's what reviews tell me), which is two cores less than my MBP. Both max out at 16GB RAM, same as MBP.

Surface Book, but that does not offer quad core CPU.

In my experience, trackpads that feel weird and unresponsive in Windows can be fine when running Linux. I think it's the OS and the drivers as much as the hardware. The Yoga I'm typing this on (with Linux) has the best trackpad I've ever used.

(Though I'm probably not a useful counterpoint for you, because I think Apple laptops have rather iffy ergonomics. Cold hard wrist rests, too slippery to hold when closed, sharp edges, annoyingly grippy trackpads)

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