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Comment by gommm | Hacker News Reader

> Tips are also handled differently in different states, but in New York, by law, they can be pooled and distributed only to “front of house” employees: those who work in the dining room, like waiters, bartenders and backwaiters (formerly known as busboys).

That really makes no sense to me. When I go to a restaurant, I value the food a lot more than the service. I've come back again to restaurants where I hated the service but loved the food. I've never returned to a restaurant where I loved the service but the food was so-so. So, if I had to choose, I'd be tipping the kitchen staff only.

But as a European, I don't really like the practice of tipping and the rather pushy service from waiters trying to increase the bill (and come every 5 minutes asking me if everything's alright) that comes with it. It's also so much easier to not have to think about tipping at the end of a meal.

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The kitchen staff are paid much higher hourly and usually work full time. If you heard what kitchen staff say about customers you probably wouldn't want to tip them.

For example when I was a waiter we made $2.13 an hour. Kitchen staff were usually in the $10-$15 range and many of them got overtime.

Tipping is just a way for owners to increase profits by passing more cost to the customer.

Ok, in the article, they mentioned: > “There was regularly a 500 percent deficit between the back of the house and the front of the house,” said Abram Bissell, the executive chef of the Modern. “Like every kitchen in New York, we were having trouble attracting and retaining talent at that pay grade.”

and

>An experienced line cook who carries $40,000 in debt from years of culinary school earns $12 an hour, while a new server can reap three times that much.

So it was my understanding that the Kitchen staff weren't paid that well. Also, I don't really care what they say about customers as long as the food is great :) They're not customer facing anyway.

But yes I do agree, tipping is just a way for owners to increase profits by passing more costs to the customer. It's exploitative and it creates bad incentives in term of customer interactions. I don't think that the customer service in restaurants is better in the US than in countries without tipping culture but on the other hand, I've seen quite a bit of pushy obnoxious behaviors from waiters that were trying to increase their tips.

You are talking about high end restaurants in New York. Chains and smaller mom/pop restaurants and not hiring line cooks with degrees.

Servers do make much more money but sometimes having steady pay and full time benefits can even out. Being a career cook can earn high pay later and/or you can even start you're own restaurant.

Front of house can be rude and pushy in US and abroad. The one difference I've seen in the US is they are slightly more attentive but its also not really needed. The customers demand it at this point. Latin America was much much slower than US or EU. Italy had a decent balance between too little or too much attention. EU were not as friendly but it wasn't necessarily a bad thing.

This is a state-by-state thing in the US. In my state, there is no alternative minimum wage for waitstaff - they make the same wages as the kitchen staff.

The justification of tipping is that it incentivizes good service. Tipping the kitchen staff makes absolutely no sense because the pay structure isn't set up that way, and because you don't interact with them. Think about what it would mean for tipping to incentivize the quality of the food prepared for you.

It makes sense when you think about it from the perspective of a culture that is focused on image and the perception of image. With that point of view in mind, why would you prioritize those working behind the scenes?

Because it perpetuates that culture. I'd really rather not perpetuate it.

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