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Comment by jevinskie | Hacker News Reader

I recently got a SureFeed RFID feeder. It can read your cat's microchip or an RFID collar tag. When an authorized kitty approaches, a flap raises and lets the cat eat. I got it to prevent other family pets from stealing my cat's food. It works well for that purpose and seems well designed. The feeder has clear side "walls" and the flap itself acts as a wall on the rear of the feeder, helping prevent food theft during authorized feeding.

I'd like to hack it and add timer functionality. See, my cat is always trying to get breakfast early and is always underfoot from 4 A.M. until I feed him. I tripped over him and broke my ankle last month because of this. I figure, if I can load up breakfast's meal before I go to bed, and only "unlock" the feeder after 7 A.M., my cat may eventually learn to stop bugging me at night. The joke will probably be on me though, darn cats.

I'd like to use an ESP8266 for this so I can also have an IoT feeder that reports usage statistics. =P

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I've got the same one and it doesn't stop cats tailgating other cats. It was however hilarious during the 'training' phase watching the stupidest of our two barrel towards the flap and go crunching into it.

Did have a good idea for gamifying it though - a cat airlock with a camera, $5 a month, getting bored old ladies on Facebook to compare the cat in the airlock and making the decision to let it through or not...

Catptcha-as-a-Service

Thanks for the branding :D

Someone did this 10-15 years ago with a webcam and a silhouette of the pet.

I think you're talking about the Flo Control Project. Looks like the original site is gone, but here is an archive link:

https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20160115204055/http://www.q...

YES, thank you!

Sounds like Reamde... :)

I wired up my Super Feeder (http://www.super-feeder.com/) to a relay and C.H.I.P. (https://getchip.com/). I wish I had multiple animals so I had an excuse to RFID it.

So far these are the triggers:

1. I put a hall effect sensor and another C.H.I.P. on his exercise wheel (https://onefastcat.com/) so it feeds him every few revolutions he runs (not sure if he's associated the two yet)

2. Alexa skill.

3. Daily 5am feeding to avoid the early morning hungry-cat-alarm-clock.

4. Hacked Amazon Dash button next to the bed (and IFTTT button on my phone) in case the 5am feeding isn't enough to silence the hungry-cat-alarm-clock.

So yeah, I identify with this statement "You might say I’ve won this battle. However I just spent 20 hours armor-plating a cat feeder. I think we know who’s really in control here, don’t we?"

Rather than the hacked amazon dash button, have you seen the AWS IoT Button? https://aws.amazon.com/iotbutton/

That might be easier to work into the system on a future refactoring of the system.

Yeah, but the Dash buttons are $5, or free with the $5 credit towards the first purchase...

> Buy this AWS IoT Button for $19.95 and receive a $20.00 credit in your AWS account within 24 hours of your first press.

If you are paying for any AWS, it's free too.

Do you know of any systems that portion out food by weight?

Super Feeder lets you adjust the duration of the feedings, which I think is pretty accurate, but you'll have to calibrate it for the desired weight, food size, etc.

I added the relay because I wanted more control. Normally you use a wall outlet relay or timer but then you only have one preset duration, and there's a 10 minute reset interval between feedings.

I know it sounds cruel and I didn't feel quite right doing it but this is why I walk around my cats like they're not there. After a couple close calls where I almost fell it seemed like it was worth a shot. I do slow down a bit so I carry/push them rather than kick when they're actually underfoot though. It only took a couple bonks to the nose and a time or two of being carried by my foot a few inches into the air to teach them not to do it anymore. And if you're concerned about affection they still rub against me when I'm standing still or sitting.

I've used something similar to teach a kitten I had to not step on keyboards. Just pick them up and drop them on the floor every time they touch the keyboard - they learn that that touching keyboards is How You Fall Off The Desk.

Ages ago, when I was still living with my parents, we had an indoor/outdoor cat that had a habit of going to various high shelves in the house and accidentally knocking things off them.

To curb this behavior, one of us would grab him off the shelf and literally throw him outside (onto grass, maybe 6' in the air), thinking that he would associate the unpleasantness of being thrown with his unwanted behavior.

He did. He changed his behavior such that he would jump up on said shelves and deliberately knock things off the shelf whenever he wanted to go outside.

He was a great cat other than that habit though. Hands down the most social (with humans) cat I have ever owned or met and my sample size on both counts is fairly large. He made everyone he met fall in love with him and had a territory of several square miles given the phone calls from people he encountered who took him in worrying that he wouldn't get home safely (he always did, though one incident when he was gone overnight prompted us to put the home phone number on his collar due to some concerned neighbor who took him in for the night). He also once jumped into a UPS truck that was delivering a package to my parents house - I happened to be looking out the window as the truck was leaving, watched it go halfway up the driveway, stop, and see the driver toss him out of the truck.

My parents have since stopped allowing their cats outside due to the murderous relationship between cats and local bird populations.

Felt I should add that this cat also figured out how to operate a light switch, with similar motivations.

I knew a cat that figured out how to operate a light switch so that they could stare at moths through the glass door that would show up with the balcony light on.

> murderous relationship between cats and local bird populations.

That line instantly made me recall this comic: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill

It does feel cruel, but it's probably safest for the cat as well as you--if they aren't afraid to get underfoot, they could be injured if you step wrong and can't stop in time.

Don't feed your cat until 7am no matter what. Ignore all foot rubs and meows. He'll eventually learn and give up.

Operant conditioning.

Watch out though for that extra-hard last ditch effort he will put out before giving up. Stay strong.

How long is "eventually"?

My cat is almost 5 years old. She is the type to overeat to obesity, probably because she was abandoned at ~1yr by her previous owner. For half her life my partner and I have been feeding her like clockwork 3 times a day, minus all of 2-3 weeks of vacations where our roommate took over.

I have to exert a constant effort to maintain our bedroom door and the rubber that I lined on the jamb to prevent her from rattling the door at 5am to ask for food - the paint is a lost cause. We have a white noise machine. We ignore her cries for food. We ignore her pawing things off our desks. We have a system to keep track of food we give her so she can't "trick" the other person. She knows exactly when we feed her (the meows get cranked up a notch about an hour before food time) but despite not giving in, she keeps acting like meowing at us is going to go anywhere.

No luck. And we know we're not underfeeding her - she's getting the calories appropriate for her (currently normal) weight, is being fed wet food, has fresh water, lots of attention and toys, all that stuff.

Unfortunately we have to give this up because we've got a baby on the way, and it's just so frustrating to lose 2+ years of effort put into having her not weigh 18lbs...

Try an automatic feeder. I have the one mentioned in the article and didn't need to do any extra hardening to protect it from our two cats.

Even though we kept a tight feeding schedule, our cats used to start meowing and pestering us an hour before dinner time. Now, they just sit quietly and stare at the automatic feeder until it dispenses their food.

Second this. Our cat was clearly able to outlast my patience. At one point early-ish into our cat's tenure in our home, during a particularly persistent meowing session I said to my wife (jokingly!), "holy shit I'm going to kill this cat." To which I quickly had the sad realization that some people probably do abuse or kill their pets. So I decided to check for advice from the ASPCA.

All the kitty guides on webbernets say, "be firm and don't give into kitty's demands." Whereas I read on the ASPCA website, "buy an automated feeder."

Guess which worked? Happy automated cat feeder owner, and our cat mostly doesn't drive me insane around feeding times.

For reference, I also own this model of cat feeder and have not needed to harden, though I do have it wedged up next to a wall to lessen risk of tipping.

Fine, fine, I just ordered the Petnet feeder :) Not my first pick, but it supports the 1/16 cup portions I would need to maintain my cat's weight on the dry food that she likes most. I shall see on Christmas Day if she'll tolerate it :D

That's our eventual plan! I haven't ordered one yet since all of them have reviews about cats being able to open them up plus I have to figure out how to transition to a dry food diet again. Mine will paw at the sealed container of bonito flakes we use as treats... I'm 110% counting on needing to harden a feeder.

for our cat it was two simple solutions: 1, feed her about 1/3 of her daily food right before I go to bed; the later she eats the later she gets hungry. 2, when she cries for food before feeding time, I chase her around the apartment with a spray bottle spraying the shit out of her. over time it has gotten much better, not perfect but she definitely learned that crying for food = getting unpleasantly wet.

If spraying works for you that's good. In general it is not recommended to spray because cats generally don't associate punishment well with actions. They are more likely to develop fear of you and/or the object than discouragement for the related concept or activity the punishment is being doled out for.

It was certainly this way with my cat. I really regret the months of different punishments we tried on him to discourage his bad behaviors as it changed his personality.

put a tsp of vinegar in the spray bottle. They learn even faster

We use an SSSCat[1] device to keep the door paint(and our night-time sanity) in-tact. It's not entirely reliable but it works enough that it keeps them away from the door.

We turn it on when we close the door at night. The cats haven't figured out when it's on or off, but they have figured out if the door is open, they can run really fast past it and it won't get them.

It did stop the door scratching, but now the door scratching has turned to 5am serenades.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/PetSafe-KIT19001-SSScat/dp/B000RIA95G

We associate our cat's food with a phone alarm instead of any sort of bothering us. We vary the alarm somewhat over time (three different repeating alarms) so the time of day isn't quite predictable.

This seems to have worked so far to avoid the cat bothering us in the morning.

Citronella sprayed near the bottom of the door, after a couple of days they stop as it probably tastes / smells horrible to them.

My cat was on a "diet" similar to yours. I just ended up giving in and letting him eat all the food he wanted, which ended up being less than expected. He just freaked out at having an empty bowl.

He's a very big strong boy now (20ish pounds) and is just very happy.

My thinking was that he's a cat and what's the point of a cat being unhappy for his whole life.

It's possible 20lbs is closer to your cat's ideal weight, since some breeds tend to run large. Mine only hit 18+lbs while we freefed her. Now she's around 12lbs, in good body condition (just a little more abdominal fat she could stand to lose).

We really had to push the weight loss because it was clear she wasn't meant to be so big. Her asthma was significantly worse when she weighed more (multiple attacks a week vs now I don't even remember the last one within the past year), and there were huge patches of her body covered in greasy dandruff because she couldn't groom herself. It would have eventually led to a lot of problems. Better for us to put up with her antics than to watch a painful death, really.

Extra abdominal fat in felines is a feature, not a bug - the 'primordial pouch'[1] which provides some extra protection in fights, and allows for a longer stride (with all four legs spread out more when running). But you know your cat best.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_anatomy#Skin

Some animals are just really really dumb.

Cats have been known to modify their purring sounds, to include a sub-carrier that is remarkably similar to an infant crying. That in turn triggers an instinctive response in humans which cause them to subconsciously rise out of bed and apply food to the source of that sound. Source: a documentary on Netflix "The Lion in your Living room".

Cats have also been known to resort to terrorism, viz., climbing onto high shelves and systematically knocking fragile items to the floor until their demands are met.

Ha! Yes they do - I just posted an anecdote describing this very behavior https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13233945

It's apparently so common that there's a game -- Catlateral Damage -- where you play a cat from a first-person perspective and score by knocking as many things to the floor as you can in a set time.

Well my cats don't need their (damn loud nonetheless) voices to wake me up... the fat cat (7kg) wakes me up by bashing me with full paw force.

Cats are awesome, especially at finding our weaknesses...

I thought it was that modern house cats have evolved to have their purring contain that similar sound, rather than that they selectively enable a sub-carrier.

One of our cats has managed to perfect saying something that sounds awfully like a distressed young child crying "mum" - I'm immune to this but it upsets my wife!

Any chance of you recording this (the cat, not the distressed wife)?

He doesn't do it that often and usually at odd times (i.e. middle of the night) but I will give it a go!

We tried this with our cat for years. He had a designated feeding time. We never broke it. His internal clock is pretty good but not exact, so he starts to pester for food an hour or two before feeding time.

So he would surely wake us up if fed at 7:00am, so one solution is to feed at night. This results in a cat constantly underfoot begging for food for two hours, which is literally a tripping hazard.

The solution is to feed him from a machine and to make sure he never sees us touching the machine. Now, at feeding time he sits by the machine and stares at it, waiting for it to open.

So, your cat transferred all their respect for you to the machine.

I love the way my cats stare at me worshipfully, and I'd envy the machine.

  > This results in a cat constantly underfoot begging for food
  > for two hours, which is literally a tripping hazard.

We found a solution to this: Only feed the cat when an audible alarm goes off. This way they associate the onset of food behavior with the alarm, not with you.

That last ditch effort is called an extinction burst [0]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_(psychology)#Exti...

Until I read the article, I was imagining this: https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/003/312/014/af9095d403701c1...

Don't feed your cat until 7am no matter what. Ignore all foot rubs and meows. He'll eventually learn and give up.

He'll maybe learn to give up. Or he's like one of our cats where we have to install a baby gate on the outside of the closed door to our bedroom to make it difficult for him to bang on the door all night/morning so that we can sleep.

Some mild punishment may be necessary. If a cat bothers me while I'm in bed, they get held by their scruff and moved to the floor. The cats bother my wife, but not me.

He's kind of a weirdo. He just sees punishment as mostly "attention" and doesn't mind it that much. Plus, any movement towards him in the morning is seen as "I must be getting fed now!" and he gets all excited.

We lock our cat out of the bedroom at night (and have since day 1), and own a cat feeder. Cat ownership bliss.

My cat is 18. She howls in the middle of the night to get us to play with her and bites at us when she feels too much time has elapsed since her last saucer of milk.

She is way too old to give a fuck anymore and there is nothing to indicate she will ever change at her age. Just like a human.

Before putting the dish down, require that the cat lay on a designated mat. If s/he moves, pick up the dish. Eventually the cat should learn to lay on the mat for the hour before mealtime, rather than bugging you. Worked for both my dog and my cat.

How on earth do you get the cat to lay on the mat the first time?

My inlaws have a bird clock, the kind that plays a different bird song at each hour. Cats figure out which birds to listen for.

I already refuse to feed him before 7am but he still tries. He is conditioned on getting breakfast from Dad and I need to condition him to get breakfast from the machine. I'm hoping that loading it with breakfast the night before and a lock indicator LED will remove Dad from the picture and allow for that conditioning.

7am? I tried that, and they would still wake me up. I switched to evening feedings instead. My cats get fed at 9pm sharp. They only get one feeding per day and they usually make it last. That means there's still food in their bowls in the morning. It took them a few weeks to get used to it, but now we don't get woken up by the cats anymore. Well, they still jump on the bed and want a cuddle, but no more annoying crying for food.

We are 12 years in and the cat is howling away. Same feed time everyday.

She is evil. If her dinner is felt to be sub par she goes into the sleeping child and claws the kid. She has come very close to a final vet visit with this behaviour.

Hey, try vinyl claw caps first. Google: cat vinyl nail caps

Animals are complex machines, just as people are. They are mirroring a lot of our traits, as anger or ignorance.

As a final resort, give the cat up by letting someone adopt it. That actually works! Good luck!

For a cheap and simple hack solution, I would imagine you could just get one of those outlet timers. That's assuming the device uses wall power, defaults to locked when unpowered, and doesn't require any user input to resume function when power cycled. Just set it to power on at 7AM and either set it to power off at the time you usually refill it, or just manually switch it off when filling.

Not as much fun as an IoT cat feeder, though.

Great idea but unfortunately it is battery operated. I suppose a relay on Vcc might do the trick though!

It would probably be easier to power it via a wall-wart (voltage adapter) and an off the shelf plug-in timer.

Just cut off the end of the adapter and wrap the wire around the battery terminals.

> unfortunately it is battery operated

Seems short-sighted on the manufacturer's side. What happens if you go on vacation and the battery dies?

It should have a wall plug, and a battery to fallback on for when there's an outage.

The feeder only contains room for a day's worth of food, it doesn't have a "hopper" and isn't designed for unattended use. It's (unhacked) purpose is mostly for multiple pet households to prevent food theft or enforcing special diets.

For some reason, based on the OP's article, I'm imagining your other cats holding the "authorized" cat up to the machine by the neck like a shakedown. :-P Kinda like in DooM when you use a dead security guard's torso to open up a locked door.

Until the dog comes to the machine with the cat (and its RFID) in its mouth.

If you're giving them an automated feeder, why not just let them eat (from it) at 4AM?

Because the feeder holds a single meal and is designed for access control (multiple pets) and not really automatic/timed feeding. A feeder with a sort of food hopper isn't too useful to me since I alternate dry/wet food for breakfast/dinner. A lockout timer would be though!

Only feed them dry for breakfast using the machine; do wet manually at night.

This.

Dry before work.

Wet when someone gets home. A little dry later. (Which they don't touch right away because they're satiated.)

Wet right before bed. They don't get ticked off unless you sleep in late because the late wet food is so good.

Cured the cat clawing at the door all night because we were trying to put them on a human food schedule for the wet stuff.

Im not a cat owner and this might seem a bit strange. Why not just out the cat in a cage with food/water/bed before going to sleep?

I think the vast majority of cat owners would consider that not only strange but cruel as well. Cats need quite a bit of room for mental well being, let alone general health, and locking them in cages at night is definitely harmful. Doing so at night, for a nocturnal animal, is doubly so. Cages are only broken out temporarily for transportation and health reasons.

I see. That makes sense. :)

Cats don't like being in cages, and they are nocturnal animals.

Personally, I just put him with food and water in the garage (and a trapdoor to go outside), but then I live in the countryside.

If I forget, he wakes me up to go outside anyways...

That sounds like a better solution. Does the cat have issues with wild animals?

Well, apart from killing small rodents (which isn't a problem AFAIK in France), and small territory fights with other cats, there have been not problem.

This would be a very cruel thing to do to a cat.

in all fairness, waking up a human everyday hours before feeding time and all the other things I'm reading in this thread, the cruelty goes both ways.

now the human has responsibility because they started it when they brought the cat in.

though the cat doesn't seem to mind because hey free food and they get to act however the way they want and the human will think it's adorable.

it is so weird. even though as a human I also find cats often to be adorable. this is a reason I would never get one.

It is an admirable quality to recognize that you are not an appropriate owner for an animal.

haha thanks I guess :) interesting way of looking at it. Not sure why you chose to generalise it over all animals. The strange one-sided adversarial relationship I sketched is quite particular to cats and cat owners. I just don't see myself willingly entering that role.

But the relationship between dogs and humans seems a lot less alien to me. I might one day, I could use the company. But it's a lot of responsibility.

Sorry I wasn't intending to generalise in that sense.

Feed him at 7 pm.

Or you could just use a $5 lamp timer.

You don't need a special device, just don't ever feed your cat when it's bugging you. You taught him that bugging you gets him food. It's probably too late now for you though lol.

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