Comment by donatj | Hacker News Reader

Comment by donatj | Hacker News Reader

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There is a mental trap I have personally fallen into I will dub the "Friendliness Trap" where you start to incorrectly think of someone you work closely with as your close friend due to the forced proximity and "friendly" interaction. This can foster inappropriate workplace behavior your brain justifies as OK.

For instance friendly teasing, sometimes even started by the person themselves (e.g. "Oh, you know us [blanks], good at [blank]") can be taken way too far. People wrongly get the sense that something is OK because the person doesn't complain or laughs along and it can escalate to the point of full on harassment and your brain still thinks "[person] is my buddy, it's OK". I think it's partially human nature and wanting to fit in. The person being teased doesn't want to come off adversarial, the person teasing thinks it's "their joke".

I realized long ago simply don't tease people at work. They are not around you by choice. Don't assume people at work are friends in the way your drinking buddies are friends. You honestly have no idea how they really feel about it until it's too late, save it for your friends who are around you by choice.

I connected to this instantly. The rest of my team, and engineering here as a whole really, is exactly like this. I'm coming around to seeing it as what is killing the company; they've shed ~200 people in 18 months, despite making money (for now). They've tried paying people more to stay, but they still leave.

There's a lot of history among these folks, with many of them at the company 5, 10, 15 years. Firing the worst offenders never happens. But it's failing the company. New hires aren't allowed to integrate, have every idea shot down, and leave after 12-18 months of frustration.

I think it's largely generational. There are only 8-10 people younger than 35 in an engineering org that is 100-105, split along {front,back}end dev, QA, and server ops lines.

We have Nerf guns and late Friday maintenance pizza parties. Our net new rollout is horrendous. We're constantly 18 months behind targets. Customers are getting wise as features keep getting cut or shipped late, and emails keep being returned to sender because the person no longer works here.

I agree. But it can also develop over a period of time. And there is a difference between being friendly and being hostile - this was the latter.

a male "alpha"/masculine-type coworker pulled this trick several years ago. self-deprecates about his weight. he was fairly good at conversation/joking/etc, and somehow he made these self-deprecating jokes somewhat funny. He wasn't even obese, just a larger guy. One day the coworker sitting right next to him poked fun at his weight, and suddenly it wasn't funny anymore, and the "victim" of the joke reported it to HR. People can play nasty tricks, and so I second your advice to not partake in any form of "teasing".

I'd add : why do you need to tease in the first place ? There's no reason to do that.

Teasing is a social thing. And like other social things the reasons are not necessarily concrete and "rational". Why do you smile and say hello to a person you pass in the hall? You don't intend to start a conversion- there's no reason to say hello. There's no "reason" to be friendly at all.

If you look at the social and emotional things happening, maybe it starts to make some sense. Smiling says, "Hi, I recognize you and you are an acquaintance/friend."

Teasing is a way of interacting- of making bonds, of feeling people out. By teasing, you are finding out about someone: How much do they care about the subject of teasing? What kind of person are they? And you are saying, "I know you so I can playfully poke at things you care about." And maybe eventually, "I know you so well, I can poke at you in a sensitive area but not go too far. We can do that to each other because we trust each other's intent and we know how to poke in a way that doesn't go too far." Strangers don't have that kind of bond and trust.

Besides that, teasing is joking. It can be simply harmless and funny and lightens the mood or improve the morale of a group.

So, yes, there are reasons.

I will never, ever defend anything like that in the workplace, but some people consider teasing and joking to relationship building.

There's no reason for a lot of human interactions that are ultimately good for a subgroup's social bonds.

I'd say it depends on a lot of factors such as local culture, company culture (or team culture for larger companies), etc. So just saying 'there is no point' is probably not an answer.

Precisely. It will also depend on how well you've grown to know and become friends with the people in question.

Myself and my close friends curse, insult and tease each other in a manner that we find entertaining; however if I had this same type of interaction with someone I've only known for a couple of months it would be insulting and I'd avoid that person.

Humans do a lot of things that have "no reason".

I do think teasing, especially in cis male friendships, is very often a big piece of the bonding experience. It simply doesn't translate well to the work environment and should be left out.

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