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Comment by pavel_lishin | Hacker News Reader

> Idea that the homeless have nowhere to go is a stretch (really, ask them, don't take my word for it)

Everything I've read says that while shelters are available, they typically have very strict schedules and policies, and staying there opens you up to theft and assault.

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And, depending on the area, there are more far homeless then there are shelter beds. Maybe this isn't the case in San Francisco, but sure as hell is the case in Vancouver, and Kelowna (Which has just passed a bylaw against sleeping in public spaces.)

Much like hotels, shelters are not responsible for the security of your things and I assure you that hotels have more thefts than shelters.

As for assaults, no shelter is going to allow an assult to happen and if an assault does happen, the police would be called. If you believe assaults are common at shelters, which they are not, call a shelter or the related police station and ask how many assaults they have had reported in the past year.

Everywhere has rules and polices, including hotels. Shelters are free and they have reasons for the rules.

>>Much like hotels, shelters are not responsible for the security of your things and I assure you that hotels have more thefts than shelters.

Hotels are at least partially liable for theft. If the theft occurs due to an employee's negligence (e.g. cleaning staff forget to close the door properly), then the hotel is fully liable.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/hotel-liabilit...

I've witnessed either the act or aftermath of several assaults on people living in homeless shelters, usually by other tenants, not to mention plenty of theft (one guy even took my CD wallet). Much of it was reported to staff but not one incident was reported to the police - it endangers the shelter's funding and upsets the residents. Homeless people are typically quite wary of law enforcement (if not due to prior harassment, then because "don't snitch" is firmly reinforced by their peers).

I wouldn't trust any police stat relating to homeless people - the notion that police even care about these people when they more often than not see them as the problem is.. odd at best. I'm really not sure where you're getting this idea that shelters are such wonderful, warm, safe places.

>> call a shelter or the related police station and ask how many assaults they have had reported in the past year.

• If assaults happened in shelters, why would the shelters ever tell you?

• Why would anyone ever tell the police? I can't imagine the homeless victims would want the police MORE involved in their lives.

• Even if someone told the police about an assault at a shelter, would they bother to investigate, or keep records? Police have incentives to reduce crime stats, which isn't the same as reducing crime.

> would they bother to investigate, or keep records

They absolutely would[1] here (central/east Europe). Is it different in the US?

[1] I run a local news site and we get these kind of stories all the time. Not just press releases from state or municipal police, but messages from the people themselves.

I've stayed in hotels hundreds of times and never once had anything stolen. I've thankfully never had to stay in a homeless shelter, but it doesn't seem reasonable to suggest that thefts are more likely at a hotel than a shelter.

Have you ever stolen a towel from a hotel?

In all seriousness though, I talk to the cleaning staff at hotels, hotel management, and law enforcement - and theft is the number one problem at hotels; next is prostitution, third is public disturbance.

My understanding is the average hotel has one theft a day; not including towels.

There's a USA TODAY report on hotel theft if you look for it.

Most homeless people don't have anything worth stealing; ask them.

That's a totally tangential point. This discussion is about the likelihood of guests being stolen from, not of guests stealing from the establishment.

Number one problem doesn't really convey the severity of the problem. There will always be a number one problem.

Off topic, but too good not to mention: Even Mickey Mouse steals hotel towels. Really. Disneyland has the Mickey's House and Mickey's Movie Studio. I forget which one, but in one of those, you find (or at least used to find) towels from the Disneyland Hotel.

Really, Mickey, I'm ashamed of you.

I'm gonna need data on that.

I routinely leave all manner of expensive electronics, cash, passports, etc in 1st world hotels and have never once had anything stolen.

I don't know if you're factually correct or not, but where do your assertions come from?

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