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Comment by RCortex | Hacker News Reader

The treatment/theraputic perspective is that depression is a treatable disease of the brain, one that can be modified by changes in behavior/thinking and/or by medication.

(Note: the paper paints a mixed picture but concludes with the generally-accepted scientific model that depressive realism is rarely accurate)

...It's strange how I've been seeing more and more about how Depression is somehow "Rational" lately. That kind of thinking reinforces depression, and is part of the core of the illness. Also this meta-study doesn't assess whether depressed individuals also overestimate helplessness. (One of the studies in the paper only tests if they underestimate control in an experiment, which might sound like the same thing at first blush but it isn't) Broken clock is right twice, poorly-designed studies, and all that...

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One thing I don't understand is how a brain-state can ever be considered abnormal. It can be considered disadvantageous, or advantageous in some aspects only, but in no way be "normal". What are the normal facial features?

It's not a matter of abnormal vs normal, it's a matter of dysfunctional versus functional in various situations. It's also a matter of the brain itself inhibiting healthy functioning of the entire body (in the case of depression and similar illnesses) The mind is the body, most especially the brain.

What if the situation/environment the person is in is disfunctional? Wouldn't a "functional" mind within a "dysfunctional" environment purposefully "inhibit healthy functioning of the entire body" as a warning sign that a new environment is needed?

No. No matter what the state of the environment, a mental illness is not going to improve the situation, if only because it limits the ability to change the environment. In fact, that is the definition of mental illness: it causes problems in dealing with life.

A "healthy" mind in a dysfunctional environment can produce physical symptoms that mimic mental illness---anxiety for example---which makes diagnosis difficult, and is the root of the difference between the blues and clinical depression.

>A "healthy" mind in a dysfunctional environment can produce physical symptoms that mimic mental illness

Im not sure I understand. When you say "mimic mental illness", are you saying that environmental factors cannot cause a "healthy" mind to get a "real" mental illness?

I have no solid data on that and I am not a mental health practitioner in any sense.

But to my mind, no. The problems of a healthy mind in an unhealthy environment are easy to solve: change the environment and the problem goes away. On the other hand, problems such as my depression get only temporary relief from changing the environment; the only long term relief has been drug treatment.

Normal facial features are a nose with two nostrils that can intake air in a specific way, a mouth with lips and a palate of a certain shape, etc. mental illness isn't a mole on the cheek, it's a cleft palate that's prevents swallowing normal food.

Mental illness is such a broad category that I'm not invalidating all mental problems. Clearly Schizophrenia is real and serious condition. However, even with that said, I think the view on schizophrenia, and mental illness that the general society has is very toxic, produces conflict, and makes an otherwise benign issue larger than it necessarily is.

Furthermore not all mental conditions are illnesses.

"Many people have mental health concerns from time to time. But a mental health concern becomes a mental illness when ongoing signs and symptoms cause frequent stress and affect your ability to function."

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/mental-illness...

"A mental disorder, also called a mental illness or psychiatric disorder, is a [...] behavioral or mental pattern that may cause suffering or a poor ability to function in life. Such features may be persistent, relapsing and remitting, or occur as a single episode. Many disorders have been described, with signs and symptoms that vary widely between specific disorders."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder

I have a family member who struggles with OCD. Trust me, it isn't "normal."

I would imagine that it is about as useful to talk about "Depression" as it is to talk about "Cancer". There are so many forms, expressions, and causes of depression, requiring wildly different approaches to treatment, that I think we do a great disservice by lumping them all under the same umbrella term.

> There are so many forms, expressions, and causes of depression, requiring wildly different approaches to treatment, that I think we do a great disservice by lumping them all under the same umbrella term.

While individuals with mental illnesses often have unique/situational characteristics, there are common causes and symptoms of such illnesses, hence our ability to categorize illnesses by name. Because the causes and symptoms are similar, medical professionals and therapists can prescribe appropriate cognitive, pharmaceutical, and other treatment plans.

Telling yourself your depression is unique just feeds into the idea that it's unsolvable and that depression is rational...

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