Hacker News Reader

The Prussians also inspired modern military drill, goose-stepping in particular.

They really were pioneers of assembly-line indoctrination.

"Voluntary options to state education should absolutely be celebrated, and parents should have the freedom to choose how to educate their own children."

See, at first when you said "voluntary" I misunderstood the word to refer to the kid's participation, but you meant voluntary as in for the parents to decide what their kid does.

All this talk of the ills of public schools, but you know a household is also a top down authoritarian system, one that certainly doesn't have more tolerance for free expression than a school, and one that isn't voluntary in the least. Most of the hostility to public schools seems to be from parents who don't want dictatorial competition.

I have no problem with homeschooling, but I'm no devotee, and I don't really buy a lot of what advocates say. Like, in actual fact, is there any evidence that homeschooling produces kids that are less, "subservient citizens who will do as they're told and not make trouble by thinking for themselves?"

Then again I'm not a great fan of the public school system. But I will say that when people say that public school is better for socialization, what they mean is that kids get the chance to navigate complex social relationships, (peers of all kinds, older near-peers of all kinds, younger ones, authority figures), and do so truly on there own.

> John Taylor Gatto, former teacher of the year in New York several times over, has written extensively on the history of education

Anything you'd recommend?

At a guess:

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto#Bibliography

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto#External_lin...

And he's well worth looking into.

> The top-down authoritarian school system is completely antithetical to Western values

So you want to take the kids out of an environment where they get to see other perspectives and instead leave it up to their parents to not create what is effectively a social, cultural, and intellectual bubble?

That seems incredibly naive.

In what world is normal life in society a "bubble" but rigidly-structured conformity to professionally-designed programs in a walled-off institution not a bubble?

Your responses are exceedingly worthless and snarky, try actually putting forth some kind of substantive statement instead of following me around.

A student that is placed into a public school has many teachers, with many other student peers from all walks of life that will offer their own perspectives on anything from social issues to academic subjects. Your disingenuous hyperbolic claim that this environment is somehow "walled off" is ridiculous non-sense.

I think that by "different walks of life" you mean different skin colors, right? Real diversity to me means people who come from different places, have been through different experiences, do different kinds of work, have read different books, have different ideas, and so on: exactly what public school can't offer.

>you mean different skin colors, right

Not really.

>have been through different experiences, do different kinds of work, have read different books, have different ideas, and so on: exactly what public school can't offer.

That's exactly what it offers.

> with many other student peers from all walks of life

That strongly depends on your school district. Chicago's shittier schools aren't likely to have too many cultures represented. My high school in Texas had a grand total of four black students throughout all four years, and three immigrants - one of whom was me. The rest was white and hispanic southern kids.

How many immigrants do you suppose most homeschooled kids interact with?

I don't know, but I imagine that it would be easier to explicitly expose your kids to other cultures as a homeschooler - you can take a day off to visit some particular community center that has outreach programs without worrying about state attendance records.

But your point is well made - I don't know if that's the sort of thing most homeschooling parents work on.

>you can take a day off to visit some particular community center that has outreach programs without worrying about state attendance records.

Honestly, I would love for this to be a thing. But I feel that it is far, far too optimistic. Most people tend to shy away from others that don't fit within their socioeconomic circle if given a choice.

"Kids would you rather stick around the neighborhood today, go to the zoo, or go into the city to a youth outreach program and meet some new friends!"

I'm being a bit too unfair with your point, but the thought of that conversation happening within a family who home schools is pretty hilarious, and unlikely, in my opinion.