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Comment by jernfrost | Hacker News Reader

Don't think that is possible. If I was a democrat today I'd do like the Republicans have been doing the last 8 years and do my outmost to make the Trump Presidency be a major failure.

The way the republicans have played this game is so dirty, that you can't expect people to forgive. We can not reward such a divisive character like Donald Trump with his racism, xenophobia, mysogny, insults and bullying with a successful presidency.

Honestly I think the democrats should do the best the sabotage him and make sure everything he does fails. It should teach them a lesson that there is no reward in playing dirty and confrontational.

If we reward this behavior it will only get worse.

It is sad to say, but for the long term benefit of America it is probably better if it gets run to the ground over these four years. Then America will be spared for such leaders in the future.

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I don't think they should act like the Republicans did under Obama and vote against things they actually believed in just to make him ineffective. If they genuinely vote for things they believe in, maybe Trump will feel more of a reason to compromise instead of digging his heels into the dirt further and further and stomping on them anyway. It's because they did this that the country got further divided and less bipartisan.

But yes, Democrats better do whatever they can to stop anything that's outrageous or they don't believe in even a little bit. No "Oh, the people have spoken, so we better go along with it" shit. Republicans pulled every dirty trick they could with Obama, so they should feel free to do the same.

> It is sad to say, but for the long term benefit of America it is probably better if it gets run to the ground over these four years. Then America will be spared for such leaders in the future.

I heard this EXACT phrase said about Obama 8 years ago! We always get what we deserve. Hope, change, make america great again.

> If I was a democrat today I'd do like the Republicans have been doing the last 8 years and do my outmost to make the Trump Presidency be a major failure.

Good luck with that. GOP now has majorities and will probably pick up more in 2018. So be it.

Dems started with a majority in both houses back in 2009-2010. Still didn't stop the GOP from filibustering and pulling out all the stops.

This is a real test of the spine of the democratic party. Will they pull the same stunts the GOP did back then? Who knows

New rules since then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster_in_the_United_State...

> The new rules remove the requirement of 60 votes in order to begin debate on legislation and allow the minority two amendments to measures that reach the Senate floor, a change implemented as a standing order that expires at the end of the current term. In the new rules, the amount of time to debate following a motion to proceed has been reduced from 30 hours to four. Additionally, a filibuster on the motion to proceed will be blocked if a petition is signed by eight members of the minority, including the minority leader.

> do like the Republicans have been doing the last 8 years and do my outmost to make the Trump Presidency be a major failure.

I think I'd modify that just a little. Our too-few representatives in Congress should do everything to thwart the Trump agenda, but only because that agenda is itself a failure. By opposing it, we make America a success. Very different than what the Republicans have been doing.

Have you considered that Republicans might consider their opposition and obstruction to be in the best interests of America?

They quite explicitly said the exact opposite the day after Obama was elected. They didn't just want Obama's policies to fail. They were willing to accept failures that hurt people, so that those people would associate the pain with Obama and vote the other way next time. That's the level of obstructionism I'm suggesting we not pursue.

> They quite explicitly said the exact opposite the day after Obama was elected. They didn't just want Obama's policies to fail. They were willing to accept failures that hurt people, so that those people would associate the pain with Obama and vote the other way next time.

What was the exact quote?

I know you'll dismiss this because of the source, but that's your problem.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/8/10/1118614/-Biden-Mitch...

I don't see anything about them being okay with hurting the country, but I see a lot about them wanting President Obama to fail, and fail badly. Do you blame them? Do you not think that Democrats want Mr. Trump to fail badly, and are having these same conversations?

If X is your number one priority, then Y - e.g. helping the American people, doing what's right, etc. - is not. What's telling is not that they said right out that they were willing to accept collateral damage - of course they didn't, because it would be political suicide - but that they said nothing at all about it. Didn't acknowledge its existence. By contrast, look at what Sanders said.

“To the degree that Mr. Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country, I and other progressives are prepared to work with him."

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sander...

That explicitly acknowledges an obligation toward the American people - something we never got from the "oppose Obama at all costs" crowd. So yes, there is a difference between today's loyal opposition and 2008's treasonous opposition. I reject your false equivalence.

> Honestly I think the democrats should do the best the sabotage him and make sure everything he does fails.

I don't think this is necessary. With Obama, his policies were ultimately shaped, designed and compromised to benefit centrist to left-leaning voters, and so he was sharply opposed by the right and extreme right. With Trump, his policies will be ultimately shaped, designed and compromised to benefit Trump, so it is far from clear that this will give advantage to any class of voter at all.

Won't this just devolve into a vicious circle, where the politically expedient thing to do is to utterly sabotage the other side, and teach the voters a less each election cycle?

I actually think we are facing real daily crises that need to be addressed. So no, I'm not going to try to sabotage my country in order to try to tarnish the Republican brand. I have work to do.

> the democrats should do the best the sabotage him and make sure everything he does fails.

Trump's got a lot more experience playing that game than they do.

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