Comment by srd | Hacker News Reader

Comment by srd | Hacker News Reader

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I have a question about storing the encryption keys. How would one actually securely store them and distribute them among the application servers in a cloud environment.

I don't buy into the 12-factor-application way of storing sensitive data in an environment variable ("ps ae" and a local intruder has the data).

Storing it in a secured file on the server requires the file to be distributed by the provisioning service, thus implying the key being stored in a repository (that just isn't your application code, but a repository none the less).

Using an api service to with client certificates doesn't really help either, because if the application code can access the required configuration and certificates, so can an intruder with shell access (since the intruder most likely has the user permissions of the running application before doing a privilege escalation attack).

I haven't seen an answer to that question that really satisfied me in the past. Does anyone have a battle tested method for storing database encryption keys?

> Using an api service to with client certificates doesn't really help either, because if the application code can access the required configuration and certificates, so can an intruder with shell access (since the intruder most likely has the user permissions of the running application before doing a privilege escalation attack).

The problem here is that if your application requires the use of encryption keys, and the user which runs this application gets compromised, you have a problem anyway - since like most applications, yours probably also doesn't care about the key's security once it's in memory. If they get that far, the only thing you can do is replace/revoke those keys and take the hit.

In more secure non-cloud setups, encryption/decryption is being done by something like a HSM, a box with only one interface (usually PKCS#11) which can be used to encrypt, decrypt and sign stuff, and you never see the keys. You have software HSM's - and you could try to apply the same principal in the cloud, where you have an isolated box with only the very well protected and audited soft HSM running.

But not sure the cost of learning and maintaining such a system is worth it for most situations, where I would use an API service like Hashicorp's Vault. Most of the compromising of keys and secrets doesn't happen on your servers, but on your or some developer/user's work machine. How many crap is exchanged over email, dropbox links, slack, skype, ...? Keeping keys out of the hand of the user and eliminating the need for your users to have them at all is higher on my priority list.

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