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Comment by wlesieutre | Hacker News Reader

Agreed. Even people who have nav systems built into their cars still use their phones instead.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/10/autos/car-navigation-frustra...

The phone navigation apps are made by software companies who actually have to compete with each other to make the best system. Compare to car nav systems where you only have one option, and the comparison of navigation systems between different cars is going to be a very very small factor in which car you end up buying. You buy the car you want and take whatever you get for navigation.

Car manufacturers (to generalize a bit) are not particularly good at software, and do not have much incentive to get better at it.

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I much prefer inbuilt nav systems when they're done well (integrated, simple dash view is a must) like in VW Golf and Merc A Class. Phone can't compete to having just the right information, right when you need it in the console. Particularly when travelling and hiring cars.

Used to agree with you. Then my Merc GL550 needed a nav update. For only $450 I got a "self installable" DVD that needed a trip to the dealer, only to find out it was still years behind. Bring on the iPhone 7.

Yes, love the navigation in my Audi. Console and in dash display, Google Maps with traffic. No nannying "you can't enter a destination unless the park brake is on", and additional nice integrations like "65 mi to empty, next fuel is 48mi, redirect to gas station now?"

Oh, AND I can use either Android or Car Play in my car, as well.

Have you used CarPlay yet? You get the large touch-screen control, Apple-standard UI, and up-to-date info. The only downside if Apple Maps is still behind Google Maps. But, it's also WAY ahead of most in-car nav systems.

I have a cradle for my phone that puts it right next to the map in my built-in nav system. I never use the nav system anymore, because it's so much easier to enter information on the phone, real time traffic is there, etc.

I still like the map, and I have it on most of the time, just because I like maps, but I'd never pay the extra for the nav system again.

The navigation assistance in my car is significantly better than the one Google Maps offers. For one thing it doesn't lose its mind every time I go under an overpass. For another, the UI is vastly superior: it shows me the distance to the next waypoint prominently in the center of the display, between the speedometer and the tachometer. When approaching a turn, the same area of the display is used to show the configuration of the intersection, even complicated ones like double forks or t- or y- shaped intersections, or even acute turnbacks. My car never barks orders like Google Maps does. If it needs to say something, it is awfully polite, saying things such as "If possible, make a legal U-turn." And finally my car's navigation responds to a voice command to stop navigating, which Google Maps doesn't seem to know.

In my experience the only thing Google Maps navigation has going for it is superior data. I really wish I could have my car's UI with Google's data.

Hasn't been my experience, but I've never had a car nav system, just attempted to use other people's. Could be a learning curve issue since I'm used to my phone UI and not the cars'.

People downvoting honkhonkpants, please don't. You may disagree with him, but it's a well thought out discussion.

Theoretically the car nav has access to inertial/distance sensors which help a ton in tunnels/weak GPS spots. But I bet few cars have this. It would sure be nice to have this exported to phones somehow. (Heck, have the whole OBD feed exposed. One can dream...)

I imagine a car's sensors could be more accurate than a phone's because they're in a fixed orientation. Plus it can tell if you're turning the wheel and should have the same distance info that the odometer gets.

The OBD-II data should include odometer readings. I assume phones could at least get that via bluetooth dongles, but I'm not aware of any nav apps that do.

> In my experience the only thing Google Maps navigation has going for it is superior data.

Well, I think most people would include price as something going for it as well.

Plus, data is huge. I have a nav package in my car but never use it because it can't route me around accidents/construction like Waze does. Driving in rush hour traffic on a construction-laden road every day, this has proven invaluable...

Those may be fair criticisms, but the only way you're likely going to get what you're asking for (Google's data with a UI as good as your car's) is through a more open and competitive model. On your phone, you probably have literally dozens of choices for GPS apps, but in your car you have one. And the one in your car will never get appreciably better, you're stuck with it.

As much as I hate bringing Tesla into every EV thread, Tesla's nav uses Google data, and they've reved the UI for all car owners back to the first Model S shipped.

With CarPlay and Google Auto you can get some of these features. What I'd really like to see is a way for a phone to get access to the car's odometer, that is how car navigation systems continue to work in tunnels (by using dead reckoning).

There are plenty of ODB2 bluetooth dongles out there... I've never seen one hooked up to a nav system, though.

After a road trip that showed me just how bad Apple Maps and Google Maps are, I switched to a third-party GPS app, and it combines the great UI and mapping directions (like you say, exquisite lane guidance[0]) but with the pros of a mobile phone (easier search/input and up-to-date maps and POI info)

[0] https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3855/14390588297_f2743d8f05_b....

Just to address the tunnels issue, Waze is beginning to install beacons to improve guidance while underground. http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2016/09/23/waze-sets-out-to-elim...

Disclaimer: I work for Google but not in the Waze team

Re: tunnels, with apple maps, I've never had an issue in tunnels. In Boston, going under the city on the 93, it predicts where I am in the route probably using the speed I was at when I entered the tunnel. I think the big dig is > 3 mi long tunnel.

You'll love using your phone for navigation, until you go to Canada, where you don't have data. (Or affordable data.)

I have a 2010 Prius, and I'm quite happy with its built-in navigation. Its UI is worse at first-time address entry, but is substantially better for... Just about everything else.

> You'll love using your phone for navigation, until you go to Canada, where you don't have data. (Or affordable data.)

In that case just use the HERE WeGo App (for iPhone: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/here-wego-effortless-city/id...) which has free offline maps for pretty much every country and doesn't need a data connection for navigation in offline mode. I use it every time I'm in another country.

I love HERE, I used it for a lot of international travel. I just wanted to also throw out there that google maps now, and for a while, offers offline navigation.

[0] https://support.google.com/maps/answer/6291838

Then you download the offline gmaps package, which has everything except real-time traffic and public transport info.

Offline maps was at one point removed from Google Maps for Mobile, but they put it back.

Here's how to use it: https://support.google.com/maps/answer/6291838

Disclaimer: I work for Google, but not on Maps.

I know on Google Maps you can cache large sections on the map for offline use.

Rogers is expensive, but what you're paying that 2x premium for is the cell phone towers in the rural parts of the country. The one time I saw download speeds on my cell phone approach the maximum theoretical was on a highway in the middle of nowhere in Ontario where I was probably the only person using that cell phone tower. If you live in an urban area and don't need the coverage, you can get a reasonable "unlimited" plan from WIND Mobile for $60 CAD/month.

I'm on Wind mobile for my primary phone and pay around CAD 35/m (40 if you factor in taxes) for unlimited data (3GB full speed, throttled for more - but have yet to throttle me even though I always go above my data limit).

It's great if you travel in any area with coverage, anything outside and you'll have trouble - I recently decided to drive to Scugog (from Oshawa) - I didn't have data from almost the entire ride.

I was lucky as I had HERE maps (with downloaded offline maps).

This is great advice for a Canadian who needs cellphone coverage. This is not great advice for an American who is visiting. (The best advice for that situation is ordering a pre-paid SIM card. Or not using your phone for navigation.)

If you're visting from the US:

T-Mobile ONE gives you unlimited* 4G LTE data in Canada and Mexico, and throttles you to 128kbps in ~140 other countries (enough to get basic maps).

Their previous plan, Simple Choice, would throttle you to 2G speeds when you were in Canada, but it was still enough to use Maps.

If you're a long-term visitor, then, yes, you should just get a local prepaid SIM from Rogers.

Disclaimer: I'm a T-mobile customer.

Or using the free Nokia navigation app, which works fine.

HERE got bought by a group of automakers.

verizon's new plans give you your data in canada for no additional charge.

Sat Nav apps are available and at reasonable pricing (Think I paid ~£20 for CoPilot a few years ago which included maps for all of the UK and Europe, worldwide could be acquired for a little more)

Edit: When I was in Uganda I used OsmAnd (open street map android) for offline navigation and it worked fine (especially considering the standard of mapping and roads available in Uganda).

just download the offline map before you go!

You'd probably have to do that for your dedicated GPS anyways, right?

My car is pre-loaded with full mapping data for all of Canada and the US.

I suppose I could achieve the same effect by clearing up space on my phone, figuring out exactly where I'm going, grabbing offline data for it, praying that I don't ever drive out of that area, deleting the offline data after my trip...

Or, I could just use my car's built in maps.

TMo includes free international data in most plans I think. http://www.t-mobile.com/optional-services/roaming.html

There are multiple offline navigation applications on Android (e.g. Sygic or OSMand), and those are more up to date than the ones in car.

There are offline phone navigation apps also. Have you looked at Navmii?

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