Comment by kriro | Hacker News Reader

Comment by kriro | Hacker News Reader

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I saw a micro:bit keynote at a big conference somewhat recently. Overall I have to say I'm not all that impressed with the strategic decisions. There were some reasons for rolling their own but they could have partnered with existing alternatives (the keynote struck me as a tad bit too "nationalistic" for lack of a better word...basically "we must do it ourselves because...REMEMBER ACORN GLORY DAYS").

Now it seems Germany is also rolling their own...meh. At least the machines will get into the hands of kids eventually and the software is open source which I like a lot. But I mean why not just ship the micro:bit (or other existing alternatives)?

And I agree with the blog post...if you must roll your own you might as well go the complete open hardware route.

tl;dr: Too much not invented here going on with these projects.

Edit: There's a reasoning for not choosing the micro:bit provided on the calliope website: no speaker, rgb light or microphone + the arrangement is strange and students would short circuit it too often; for not chosing arduino/pi etc.: too complex/needs too much extra stuff and is thus impractical in school use

Hi,

It was probably me you saw keynoting - perhaps at this year's EuroPython? I'm one of the volunteers behind the MicroPython related work for the micro:bit.

Sorry you thought I was nationalistic. That's completely the opposite to my intention. :-(

To set the record straight, my point about the Acorn BBC micro was only:

1) The BBC already have done something like this before and have "form", resources and reach in this respect. 2) The BBC micro gave the 8yo me the sense of wonder and excitement in computing that inspired me to become a programmer.

These points have absolutely nothing to do with the decision of the BBC to create the micro:bit project.

They wanted a device that wasn't as complicated as a Pi but that also contained enough hardware to be a compelling "device for thinking" as Seymour Papert would put it. A huge amount of research, development and testing that went into working out how the device should function. It certainly wasn't a case of NIH - we were painfully aware of the danger of wheel reinvention. That the BBC is a UK based organisation is completely beside the point. In fact, all the Python related work was done by an international group of volunteers - reflecting the Python community's diversity and something I want to celebrate. Furthermore, the team who did the Microsoft related work are Seattle based.

Personally, I think it wonderful there is a German team working on an alternative. I'm also hopeful they'll be a lot more open about the hardware - the BBC have been dragging their feet in this respect although I know they intend to eventually open source hardware schematics.

Let many flowers bloom!

The important thing is kids get exposure to platforms that help them realise that programming is something that'll help them do valuable stuff. This isn't just about creating a new generation of engineers; Rather, I'll know we've succeeded if in fifteen years I meet doctors, teachers, artists, musicians, lawyers, civil servants and other professionals who are computer literate enough to know how to effectively explore and make use of such technology.

David Allen, the producer involved with the original BBC micro from the 1980s, said it best: "The aim was to democratise computing. We didn't want people to be controlled by it, but to control it."

This isn't nostalgia for the Acorn "good old days" - it's a sentiment that's just as valid today as it was back in the 1980s.

I look forward to seeing how kids get on with all such devices. :-)

FWIW, it wasn't EuroPython. It was Muc2016 in Aachen, Germany (human computer interaction conference)

Thanks for the explanation :) We're pretty much in agreement overall, some project choices just seemed odd though. These projects tend to be bureaucratic beasts on top of the technical challenges. One of the interesting takeaways was that the micro:bit team learned a lot of non-technical lessons that are valuable (how to best deploy the devices, what kids will do with them, what's especially interesting etc.)

"""A huge amount of research, development and testing that went into working out how the device should function. """

I guess that's where I disagree. I feel all this afford could have been invested into creating better software for existing solutions and focusing more resources on pedagogical aspects. At the end of the day the micro:bit costs 13-15 pounds a pi-zero costs maybe 6? I don't feel the hardware side of things provided the most value for the invested tax money I guess. HUGE DISCLAIMER: if the hardware is open sourced fully eventually (I also heard/read it's planned eventually) then I'm actually cool with building yet another smallish computing device.

"""This isn't just about creating a new generation of engineers; Rather, I'll know we've succeeded if in fifteen years I meet doctors, teachers, artists, musicians, lawyers, civil servants and other professionals who are computer literate enough to know how to effectively explore and make use of such technology. """

Completely agree.

One of the great things about the Microbit is how simple it is - sometimes it is so much more difficult to produce something that is simple and intuitive, and that's the case here. The Pi Zero is a great device, of course, but as a full single-board computer it requires an SD card with OS, keyboard, display, etc. Now with all those add-ons it no longer costs 6 pounds, and neither is it as simple to use. With the Microbit, I've sat down with both young students and teachers and taught them how to use the block-style language to write a simple program and upload it in just a few minutes. They can then plug in a battery pack and walk away with it to show to their friends. It's a great board. Having Bluetooth on it is a ++, since you can then program it from a mobile phone. How great is that?

In the US it's been wonderful to watch the development of Adafruit's Circuit Playground, another really great board for learning. It has a slightly different intent, and it's programmed using the traditional Arduino framework, but having the Neopixels, speaker, microphone, and so many positions to attach clips for expansion etc is just brilliant. It's also super portable with a battery pack once you've flashed a program onto it.

Having all these options for learning computing gives educators, parents, and kids the ability to select what's right for them: the challenge now might just be getting the information out there so that it's easy for them to pick!

Great stuff and many thanks for responding!

Hah... it wasn't me talking at Muc2016. I wonder who it was? I'd love to know who... :-)

FWIW, here's my EuroPython keynote, including singing micro:bits:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVaF6uZuSIU

Would love feedback!

It was David Crellin.

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