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Comment by raman325 | Hacker News Reader

FWIW, Verizon does extensive internal testing of OS updates. When I was there, as an engineer, we would be given phones, and anytime there was a new update, we would receive the updates first, use it daily for a couple of weeks, and report what we found. There were multiple tiers of internal user trials before the updates were greenlit, and there were many potential OS updates that never made it to public because of the problems we found.

Verizon may slow down updates to consumer devices, but I always felt like it was for good reason.

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This is fair, and a big reason I'm okay with update delays at Verizon. I trust them to block me from shoddy builds made by "fail often" companies like Google. As a business professional, I appreciate that Verizon demands reliability.

...However, people buying the Pixel are expecting direct control from Google, as part of the deal.

Verizon might benefit from taking a page from Motorola or Microsoft's book though: Allow users to opt into receiving direct updates, with the manufacturer or the user accepting the financial risk for problems encountered. Motorola phone users could sign up to be in test waves of their updates, and Microsoft, of course, has a Fast ring, a slow ring, a release preview, and of course, the official launch schedule the regular people are held to.

Note that similarly, when my Lumia Icon got Windows 10 Mobile, which Verizon doesn't currently support at all, Verizon did allow it, but basically said "it's at your own risk". And I get all my Windows Mobile updates directly from Microsoft on release.

Users should be able to accept the risk of a buggier experience to be on the latest software.

I hear you, and appreciate where you are coming from. I will say that Verizon cares a lot about its brand and about perceived quality. I believe that's why they try to maintain as much control over the "change" process as possible, because they see themselves as the ones on the hook when the quality of the experience is sub par.

Do they do the same for Apple devices ?

I don't remember what we did for Apple devices, but I'm pretty sure they (Apple) had complete control over the update framework, including the updates themselves.

EDIT: edited for clarity

Why is that personally I feel it is so that they can put all the carrier bloatware into the Android roms. I like that here in Singapore carriers are not allowed by law to lock phones to their networks or put uninstallable bloatware. So carriers can put the bloatware in but I can get rid of it easily as not in the system rom and we are allowed to sell the device that we get thorough contracts.

Apple had more negotiating power than any other cell phone manufacturer had in the past. The first iPhone that supported the Verizon network was the iPhone 4. At that point it had already been proven to be wildly successful, and it was one of the few things that people could knock Verizon about (aside from price). I'm pretty sure Apple held all the cards in the negotiations to get the iPhone 4 on the Verizon network.

Contrast that with every Android OS based manufacturer: 1) The majority of them were companies that had been working with cellular providers for years already. They probably already had agreements in place with providers about how things would go (bloatware, extensive testing, etc.). 2) They were competing with each other for market share because the OS wasn't a differentiating factor (their bloatware/cosmetic overhauls were weak attempts to establish software differentiation). 3) Verizon made a big investment in Android with the Droid line, providing marketing, branding, etc. Any other manufacturers that were building Android phones had to compete with these devices and had to market on their own. Verizon had all of the cards.

It's slowly changing, but it boils down to: 1) Manufacturers trying to compete (they often add plenty of their own bloatware) 2) Verizon using a model they're familiar with from the feature phone era and manufacturers being used to the carriers having control

Looks like the news media still has some power. With all the recommendations of not buying google pixel from verizon now they have come out saying google will control the updates and the devices will be carrier unlocked.

FWIW, Apple apparently has a "Verizon team" (this was leaked in a Slack vulnerability). Presumably Apple works somewhat directly with Verizon on meeting their testing requirements for simultaneous release.

not op but I will say no, because Apple pushes the update by themselves.

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