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Comment by qwertyuiop924 | Hacker News Reader

This echoes what Yahtzee said about the game years later, and it still rings true: Half-Life is such a powerful experience precisely because you never leave the shoes of Freeman. Its story interleaves with its gameplay, and the pieces are all there to see, but if you just want to shoot some aliens, that's okay too.

It's a collection of innovations and feelings that few other games have been able to capture.

On an unrelated side-note, if you've played Half-Life, Freeman's Mind is a must-watch: it's an astoundingly funny bit of comedy that is just so brilliant.

Yahtzee Crowshaw's (yes, the very same guy I mentioned above) LP of the game (Let's Drown Out All Of Half-Life), while by no means a must-watch, is also reccomended.

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I think that's why Half Life 3 is still so desirable for so many who were influenced by that story, despite the reality that it's almost certainly never going to be made.

By the way, is Yahtzee still slumming it on the Escapist, or has he done the Patreon thing like Jim? He always seemed too good for that place.

The Escapist really is a sad story. Back when it started in PDF form in 2005, it was intended to be a high-brow gaming magazine with no news or reviews, just in-depth articles about trends in games. This was compromised when they started doing just those other things, but for a long time they at least didn't include numeric scores in reviews like everyone else (until they compromised on that).

And for a long time even after it became a website, they had a weekly magazine with some really good articles. But that gradually got pushed further and further out-of-focus in favour of more videos until they basically stopped doing it entirely. And then of course they lost most of the worthwhile video series and now it's just a bland gaming press site with Yahtzee.

And imo he seems to be stuck in a rut.

His early videos seemed to be interesting, but these days every video is an excuse to rant about clueless game company execs and overweight manchilds.

???

He does that sometimes, but certainly not every episode.

I don't think 'never' is very realistic. HL3 would be the perfect killer app for selling Vive VR headsets, I'm reasonably sure they are working on something like that. Although Portal does actually make more sense in terms of how the transport mechanics can work together with a VR rigged room, however HL3 could easily introduce a teleport mechanic as well based on its backstory.

All of that is true, but consider that in the years since HL2 came out, that anticipation and fan theories have gone through the roof and back again. Valve has since stopped being a developer, and prints money with Steam, and a big part of the goodwill they garner has to do with their reputation as sterling game devs.

Now, you have to ask if HL3 could ever hope to meet the expectations of the modern gamer, many of whom were probably just born when HL2 was big and have no real connection to it. What do they have to gain from it? What do they have to lose? I'd argue that they're making so much money now they don't particularly need the expense and risk of developing a game that, even if it is quite good, stands to potentially harm their reputation.

I don't think it's quite true that Valve has completely given up on developing. Their last release is Dota 2 from three years ago. If you follow the rumor mill, there's often asset leaks going out from various source updates to TF and Dota2 - development certainly hasn't stopped, it just seams that they only announce something when they know they have something that sets new standards.

Valve released a complete engine rewrite for Dota 2 only about 12 months ago, Dota 2 Reborn. They also release major game updates regularly.

Aside from Steam, Valve (the developer) seems to be putting a lot of focus on esports right now. Many of the recent updates to Dota 2 seem to be new features and quality of life improvements for casters and spectators.

You're right, and I phrased that badly. I should have said that they're continuing development for their existing properties, but not developing new games.

Indeed. It's the Duke Nukem effect.

HL2 is good old FPS game.

There is no way in hell they could release it as a VR game and not as regular FPS game. That would be just really bad move from Valve.

Half Life 3 will be made, in about the same way humanity will solve climate change. Which comes first remains to be seen.

> almost certainly never going to be made

Wait, why is that? Isn't this 2016 where any game or movie that is even a little successful, must inevitably have successors?

How could valve motivate not making a game that would sell like hotcakes no matter how terrible it is? Sure, it would have enormous expectations, but that's true of all movie sequels (yet most suck). Is the value of Valve currently based on a game they'll never make, because it' can't live up to expectations? That would be an odd situation!

Even if Valve decides against ever doing HL3, could they afford not to sell the franchise? It must be worth a TON to e.g. Microsoft who could use the title it to push xboxes or VR headsets or whatever.

I think Valve are very aware that their PR relies on them being seen as game devs. Their customer service is genuinely appalling. One of the major things keeping Steam in power is the refusal of players to consider using other platforms.

If they were to sell the HL franchise they risk losing a lot of customer support overnight. They would no longer be game devs, whose blunders can be excused because of their amazing games, they are money grabbers willing to whore out their franchises for short term cash grabs. The risk to the Steam platform just doesn't seem worth it.

If they were to sell it MS would be one of the worst destinations for it. If I were in their shoes I would likely explore having a smaller studio build it. A sale to MS could only be viewed as financially motivated and the quality of the game produced is almost certain to suffer.

However if I were them I would keep it as an ace up the sleeve to bring the masses to a new H/W platform Valve bring out. Such a release could seal the platform that wins its generation of consoles.

...However, if HL3 becomes console exclusive, Valve will lose the PC hardcore demographic that makes up their fanbase. I myself would never forgive them. This Steam Controller is okay, but keyboard and mouse is really the only way to play FPS.

I was thinking more of a VR transition, where it is still a PC game yet they are hawking some custom hardware in the goggles.

So the next generation of consoles or so they release a steam machine with VR tools and their 'next gen' games.

So still PC, but packagable for console users

Potentially. However, VR in traditional games hasn't been solved yet, and may not be for many years.

> How could valve motivate not making a game that would sell like hotcakes no matter how terrible it is?

I think it mostly boils down to Valve being a privately held company that is not under pressure to meet arbitrary quarterly financial targets. The article is quite clear that Gabe Newell gutted HL a few months before the original release date rather than deliver a game that wasn't quite "there" yet.

Additionally, if Valve have maintained their notoriously flat structure, HL3 will need to acquire critical mass /buy-in within Valve before it can make it out the door.

> Even if Valve decides against ever doing HL3, could they afford not to sell the franchise?

Yes, as long as Steam remains a money printing machine, they will not be desperate.

The value of Valve is in Steam, Team Fortress hats, and DotA skins.

No, that's where the money is. The value is in the actually good games.

Still at Escapist. Mayhaps it's inertia, or possibly a contractual thing. No se.

He gets paid decently (and on time, unlike most of the people who've worked for them) and, I've been told, doesn't actually make his own videos--just does the voiceovers. That sounds like a pretty easy gig.

Huh. I was pretty sure he did the videos. Maybe he just storyboards them now?

Ah well, maybe he'll finally use that free time to make a proper version of Cell. Because the demo of that game was really cool.

Yikes, oh well, as long as he's on Youtube as well I suppose it doesn't matter. Thanks for the info.

One of the things which really surprised me when I played HL and all its subsequent versions(HL2, HL2:E1, Hl2:E2) was the FPS game design -- The designers knew precisely the limits they could go to make it damn difficult for you to find next steps you will need to do and what to do to reach to those steps. Combine that with FPS gameplay and you have a heck of a game there. Loved everybit of my life playing it and that's why I choose HN username as "gordon_freeman". :)

> if you've played Half-Life, Freeman's Mind is a must-watch

Agreed! https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELkznu7Gec_hU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SQhfkpX9bc&list=PL6PNZBb6b9...

Here is a playlist with the full series.

Are you trying to tell me how to structure my posts? Man, that's it. You're on The List.

Uggh. This whole forum is full of sheep. I'll probably be downvoted by people who don't understand this gag. I get no respect.

The writer for that Freeman's Mind was far better then I'd expected. I remember watching that back when machinima was considered "nice" or "good" by the community! Brings back memories.

It's quite fantastic. I thank Yahtzee for bringing it to my attention through his many digressions, including a story about how he accidentally ripped Ross Scott (the creator of Freeman's Mind) off.

Unfortunately, my prophecy seems to be self-fulfilling. GPP is down from +3 to +0.

Also agreed. Ross Scott is awesome.

A more critical review of the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-3gcVICiCs

And a less critical retrospective https://youtube.com/watch?v=bp5vOgz8vyI

Thanks, I wasn't aware of his work. I like this deconstructive approach to game review.

Yeah, Errant Signal is pretty cool. Have you checked out matthewmatosis? He does the same sort of stuff, and sometimes goes even more in-depth.

> Half-Life is such a powerful experience precisely because you never leave the shoes of Freeman.

I felt much the same way about Marathon, which ended up being under-appreciated by virtue of being Mac-only. A shame.

Many said that Marathon delivered on the story promise before Half-Life. I tried it out recently. Unfortunately, due to a warped perspective and a positively abysmal FOV, I can't actually play it without feeling sick, and as a result the whole thing feels like a slog. It may be good, but for me, it's totally unplayable.

I remember playing Marathon when it first came out, and... frankly had the same reaction. I managed to play Spectre on a Mac LC, but Marathon broke me. Lots of potential, but as seen through the bottom of a beer glass.

Ehh, wondering if you played Marathon or Marathon 2. Either way, older games are often lacking in usability compared to newer ones. That's especially true of FPSs prior to, say, 2000.

This usability thing has been fascinating me recently.

I've been re-playing the Metal Gear Solid series. The second and third game are better than the originals because of a control scheme update that was part of a bigger 'HD' update. But they still suck compared to the controls of the fifth iteration of the game, 'The Phantom Pain'.

MGS5 has some of the best controls I've ever used in a (third person) game. For lack of a better description, it made me feel almost like how I felt when I first played Mario64.

And I can't help but wonder why 1) it took three iterations to get here even though 5's controls could be realized even in earlier iterations of the game, 2) why other similar games don't just use the same controls instead of more dated approaches.

I mean, I get why, but it feels strange. I understand how the development of graphics, physics, AI, etc. is limited by technology but as long as you don't need a controller update for your new control scheme, such a limitation shouldn't be there. And yet it is, apparently.

It's about how people think about things. Other companies could have put a stick on their controllers, but Nintendo were the first ones to realize that it was a good idea. Twin sticks could have evolved earlier, but Sony was the first company to really get it. Turok on the N64 didn't need to have as bad controls as it did, but until Goldeneye, that was just the way things were done. Mind, Goldeneye's controls weren't that great, but they were playable.

OTOH, there are some old games that control fine. Megaman 2 still feels great to play, as does Quake with +mlook and WASD. But yes, control affordances matter. For the large part, Doom can only be played comfortably by modern audiences because of the work Source Port developers undertook to allow for rebindable keys, and sgtmarkiv's Brutal Doom, which allows for proper mouselook, if you really want to be that guy.

That's a good point.

I've been doing Ludum Dare for a while now and it has only deepened my respect for games with good controls. For the last jam, I didn't spend nearly as much time on control feel as I usually do and I got a bunch of negative feedback for it.

For another example, people criticize Unity for games with poor feel, but what's really happening is that Unity has enabled a bunch of new developers to make games with less effort, and that includes spending less effort on getting the controls to work well. All Unity did was lower the bar to entry.

Take a look at Quake III, in bg_pmove.c PM_Accelerate

https://github.com/id-Software/Quake-III-Arena/blob/master/c...

This is the code that translates player input into acceleration for the physics system to handle. Notice the code blocked out with #if which fixes a bug but the fix isn't used because it "feels bad". The bug lets you accelerate to ridiculous speeds with the right pattern of movement.

...that's not exactly why that fix was killed. What you see is Carmack losing a war with the fanbase: strafe jumping came about in Q1, and was a really important part of the Quake metagame. Carmack wanted to kill it, because it didn't fit his vision. He tried to, but the only fix he could come up with was limiting jumps and having a cooldown, which he recognized was actually even worse, because it just wasn't fun.

> the only fix he could come up with was limiting jumps and having a cooldown

That's not true, look at the code. It does something else. You can also check out the .plan from Jun 3, 1999:

> When I tried fixing the code so that it just didn't work, I thought it changed the normal running movement in an unfortunate way.

Yeah, I believe that was how it was changed. I don't totally recall though, so nevermind.

Meh. Doom had a playable FOV, and it's still a complete blast to play.

Meh. Different people are always going to like different games. I remember being at a LAN party where different people would dominate the game depending on the lineage of the game technology--you get used to something, it feels normal, and everything else seems "wrong". I don't feel any need to convince you that you "should" enjoy Marathon any more than you "should" like the same bands I like.

Of course. I mean, I'd probably enjoy it a lot more if it didn't look like it did. If M2 fixes it, I might try that, but it is a story-based game, so that's got its own problems.

Yes, HL had a better story than most FPS, but I don't think this is why it was hyped.

It simply delivered one of the best modding possibilities ever.

You bought HL and every week you could buy a gaming magazine with 5 new mods. Most of them crap, for sure, but it felt like paying once and getting new stuff all the time.

I never had a game installed for so long and played the "main game" for such a short time.

HL², on the other hand, I played for the story only, never installed any mods or something, but maybe I was already to old to run after this half finished games, haha.

Quake actually had a better modding scene in terms of creativity. But HL gave us TF in its present form, and CS and NS1, so it gets all the credit.

Yes, I read that too.

Like I said, I got most of my stuff from gaming magazines before I had Internet, and I almost never saw any Quake mods on their CDs.

On the other hand, I was rather young when Quake was "a thing" and just started with PC gaming. I found out about these magazines a few years later.

Yep. And HL was really where the mod scene went. From there, the MP component did stuff with Quake 3. Who knows what the rest of it did.

Unreal Tournament had a decent mod scene too though, and it was only with HL2's Source Engine (and I suppose Valve's active support of modding) that I saw people leave that scene.

I only worked on mods for UT and the original Jedi Knight, and I've only heard second-hand that UT and Quake (3? 2?) were easier to mod than HL1, so I might be wrong.

And compared to Jedi Knight and its only editor(s) being user-made, all these games were easy to mod!

Well, you barely hear about the UT mode scene. Now think of three Quake mods, quick:

Team Fortress, Quake Chess, AirQuake, ThreeWaveCTF, Xonotic (kinda, sort-of)

Think of three Half-Life mods, as fast as you can:

TFC, Counter-Strike, Natural Selection, Sven Co-op, Science & Industry

Think of three Quake 3 mods, as quickly as possible:

OSP, CPMA, ThreeWave (again), OpenArena

Think of three Doom mods/mappacks, fast:

Memento Mori, Brutal Doom, Batman Doom, Russian Overkill, The Sky May Be, Tech Gone Bad, and so many more

Think of three Minecraft mods, as fast as you can:

Thaumcraft, IC2, Buildcraft, Forge, FMP, Thermal Expansion, Better Than Wolves, RedPower, NEI, Ars Magica, Applied Energistics, Aether Mod, Tinker's Construct. You want more?

Think of three UT mods:

Ummm... Errrr... Ummm... If you count mappacks, somebody might have made a version of Aerowalk for it?

Now, that's just me, but I doubt others would have dissimilar responses.

> On an unrelated side-note, if you've played Half-Life, Freeman's Mind is a must-watch: it's an astoundingly funny bit of comedy that is just so brilliant.

True. Also I just learned that he actually finished the whole game. I used to follow this series as he was producing it, and I thought he gave up halfway through.

> On an unrelated side-note, if you've played Half-Life, Freeman's Mind is a must-watch: it's an astoundingly funny bit of comedy that is just so brilliant.

Likewise, if you've played Half-Life 2, you owe it to yourself to read Concerned: The Comic of Gordon Frohman

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