Hacker News Reader

Comment by mikeryan | Hacker News Reader

On top of all that, Amazon doesn't have unionized employees. That's a huge advantage when you are trying to reduce costs. Not only are their employees wages probably less, but they also don't have contracts that reduce planning ability, like fixed routes, etc.

There's no realistic way to reduce costs being non-union shop in what is traditionally a unionized business. Either the shop will organize on its own or you run the shop to union standards in an effort to stave off organization.

View on HN

I think that is probably true for skilled workers, but the people delivering packages for Amazon in Chicago appear to be far from skilled. It's not that hard to find someone with a driver's license and replace them. Assuming Amazon has to offer similar benefits to Union shops, they will still save money. For instance, if Amazon offers its delivery drivers retirement benefits, you can rest assured there is no way in hell they offer a pension. On top of that, I can guarantee that Amazon won't hamstring its logistical flexibility by guaranteeing fixed routes.

This is even assuming that Amazon directly employs their delivery drivers. I know Google delivery uses contract drivers in Chicago. I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon has a similar set up in some places. It's pretty hard to organize when you are the driver.

Regardless, Amazon will fight tooth-and-nail to prevent unions from forming. They've successfully done so at their warehouses, and I don't see why deliveries would be any different. See this article by the NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/17/technology/amazon-proves-i...

I think you have that backwards. Unions work best for unskilled work. They're not really necessary in most skilled jobs where worker demand is high and wages are competitive.

There are many skilled professions which are highly unionized; e.g., the various TV and film production unions. Which professions are and aren't unionized is, to a large extent, just a quirk of historical circumstance.

Unions are a collective bargaining mechanism.

> unskilled

http://www.alpa.org/about-alpa/what-we-do

> necessary

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/01/15/415m-settlement-...

Wal-Mart? Hardly union standards, and never been able to successfully organize.

Is Walmarts business "traditionally unionized"? You might have missed that crucial prior in GPs statement.

Additionally, Walmart actively discourages unionization via propaganda during training and outright threats. If Reddit is to be believed, closing an entire outlet is not too big a price to stave off the specter of unionization.

Between Walmart and Amazon, I'd rather have Amazon win, but at some point we're going to optimize away all the on the ground jobs.

Less of a deal for cities, but some of the small towns I drive through for work don't seem to have any other employment than trades/Walmart/service/trucking/maybe "the local plant".

What kind of world are we creating for small towns when 2.5 of those disappear in the next few decades?

Maybe there's not much of a world for small towns? Perhaps the only people who will live outside of big cities at some point will be remote workers looking to get away from so many people.

The Caves of Steel series sees all of terrestrial humanity living in huge hives, for example, with only robots outside of those, doing all the farming and mining.

Here in northern Sweden we are starting to see people coming back to the small towns. There is even a large amount of germans and other nationalities coming here and setting up their new life. Common jobs involve tourism aimed towards their old home-country. They pull in more people that sees the benefits of living less crowded (but still low cost 100 Mbps unlimited broadband).

The price for a house with land and forest can be as little as 1/100-th the price of a house in Germany so not uncommon that they buy more than one, restorate it and invite the kids/grandkids too :-)

The postal service works pretty well, we have had a few incidents while living in a bigger city where packages was marked for delivery failed, not home while being home the whole day. But those got sorted out after a phonecall and haven't had them since. Apparently all the delivery companies hires the same local people to do the actual deliveries so you don't get around the problem by switching company.

Excellent share. Good to know.

>> The price for a house with land and forest can be as little as 1/100-th the price of a house in Germany

Can you please share prices ?

One friend bought a few houses for 500 euro each

I so hope not. I live on the edge of a very small town. We have fiber! We also have clean air, clean water, no crime, a helping community, strong social connections and no congested traffic. I work online. I fish in the evenings or do other outdoor activities. In 30 minutes I can be at a university. I hail from Los Angeles where all of my younger well-paid siblings have had health issues or dealt with crime etc. Small towns have benefits that have vanished in metro markets. I am calmer and enjoy life more here ..and am healthier.

Oh I totally sympathize, I'm thinking of moving to a smaller town. But as a thought experiment, it doesn't seem inconceivable that economic activity will continue to concentrate into the big cities, leaving mostly tourism and a smattering of remote work for the smaller towns.

> Is Walmarts business "traditionally unionized"?

If you think of WalMart as the replacement for Sears, then Sears was at least partially union... or something.

Some Wal-Mart butchers had a successful unionization vote. In response, Wal-Mart closed down all their butcher shops.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/wal-mart-to-shut-down-meat-...

Similar businesses like Kroger, Meijer, Safeway, Albertsons have union employees.

To my knowledge, UPS is unionized but Fedex is not.

I think you are correct. I've attributed the fact that UPS and USPS employees will stand around and chat, and Fedex employees run in like their tail is on fire and run out to this point. I know that Fedex is mostly an express service, and UPS and USPS aren't, but I think the union/non-union thing contributes.

Not that the speed in any way sours my opinion of unions. I'd burn out working under Fedex-like conditions.

>I know that Fedex is mostly an express service

This was true in the past, but FedEx and UPS are practically identical in their service offerings for the last 15 years.

FedEx Ground is typically handled by independent contractors (and may actually be a separate company). FedEx Express drivers are FedEx employees.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com