Comment by cubano | Hacker News Reader

Comment by cubano | Hacker News Reader

I am currently writing this sitting in a small motel room very close to downtown vegas and am very alone.

I am back on heroin. I write this not for shock factor because, frankly, I don't give a shit about how anyone feels about it.

I write this as a warning to those wise enough to hear, about how being introverted can easily lead to a lonely, fairly miserable life as you grow older.

My excuse was always the same as I hear here...I'm not interested in shallow conversation or discussing things with people whom seem to have almost complete misunderstandings of the basics of things etc etc.

I am 51yo, my birthday was last week..2 people texted me happy birthday and I spent the day alone, as none of my local junkie friends bothered to invite me to do anything. Yeah, big surprise I know can you believe it?

I spent almost 35 years of my life, starting at age 15, playing in bands and was always surrounded by fellow musicians and all the various bar archetypes.

Coding came super easy to me and it allowed me to earn very good money while living a lifestyle that had all the trappings of a happy, extroverted kinda life, and I enjoyed it immensely. I felt (and still do) incredibly blessed by the genetic gods to be born at such a time where society valued my native aptitude...I am sure there were periods where it wouldn't have been such a blessing.

Looking back, I see how I was drawn to and used drugs and music as tools to overcome my introvertness, and you know what? They worked very well. But, as they say, what happens when the song ends and the dope runs out?

But this is my dilemma and where it gets nutso...I wonder just how much we truly control the decisions our brain and subconscious make for us. Looking back, I have serious doubts that even if someone had shown me of picture of my bleak life right now, that I would have somehow been able to make different decisions.

Even now, knowing how I should act to prevent this level of isolation, I am unable to do those things consistently enough to make them work and have all but giving up trying.

So yeah..introverted, rude, selfish, disconnected for sure. But also, passionate, informed, and sensitive as well.

That's life I guess.

I'll be in Vegas Monday. Let me know if you want to meet up for Thai food? I realize it's not a likely desire of an introvert, but it might be good to get out and have a chat with someone semiobjective.

There are some very thoughtful comments in response to the parent, and I'm not degrading them. I just want to say in addition to an upvote that yours is more than just thoughtful. Thank you.

If your absolutely sure u want to do it and it wasn't just "it seemed like a good idea at the time", send me an email to clamagaslu@throwam.com because...what do i have to lose?

Just so you don't think I'm a total flake...I tried 3 different "temp email" services and while i got them working, it seemed difficult to be able to log back into them once you create them and one of them only lasted for a few hours or something...so if I missed your reply (if you did reply) its not me being rude or an ass, its just that those email things didn't work quite as i expected them to work...

LOL..i have to chuckle somewhat at the typical experience that this sort of thing is for my life and the irony of it :) Thanks for the offer anyway...it just doesn't seem like its meant to be or whatever and i of course do not want to give out any identifying information.

Fair enough, I'm on my way to Table Thai on sunset corporate now, if you want to join at 7 PM, I will be there until 730 at least.

No worries on missing me. I'll be back that way soon if you want to catch up. Alot of those new smaller email services can be flakey and hard to use so I certainly understand.

Good luck. You sound despondent ... it used to work, but now escapism isn't delivering, and you are afraid where this will lead. Often a change of environment/scenery is the best way to get yourself out of a rut.

H-brain will throw up fear of withdrawl, but you can always get on a shorter plane ride and check straight in to a clinic in some town on the other side of the country, get some methadone and taper off... just try not to make new junkie friends.

Good luck.

http://www.methadone.us/methadone-clinics/ http://www.opiateaddictionresource.com/treatment/methadone_c... http://methadoneclinic.com/how-to-find-free-methadone-clinic...

You seem to think these traits are fixed. They are not. I'm currently reading "The Pursuit of Perfect" by Tal Ben-Shahar, give this one a go, it'll free you of your blame, shame and beliefs.

This extrovert/introvert label is used in ways it shouldn't. Two kinds of people hide behind being an introvert: assholes and people afraid of other people, often a mixture of both. Both groups alienate people with their behaviors and thus are lonely, sometimes angry about it, which worsens both traits. They don't want to be, making contact with people exhausting. Instead of addressing the real problem, they get isolated even more or, like you, externalize getting happiness, which I bet Heroin is very good at consistently delivering.

Again: these traits are not fixed. If you think of yourself as unlikable, you will be. If you think people are all stupid (way to generalize), you will alienate other people. If you think other people are dangerous, which you might have had to learn early in your life, you will behave in a way that other people don't find pleasurable and won't choose to be around you. It's painful to think about, so people just say they're introverted.

You can accept that & change, or you can stay where you are. I myself decided to stay in this social coma for 20 years, really angry about it too, being even harder on myself & others. Didn't help. Now people (voluntarily!) call me.

> This extrovert/introvert label is used in ways it shouldn't. Two kinds of people hide behind being an introvert: assholes and people afraid of other people, often a mixture of both

That leaves out the sizable kind of people who actually are introverts. It strikes me as rather dangerous to take what seems to be a pretty simple observation - people occupy a spectrum from 'enjoying little to no social contact' to 'does not enjoy being alone at all' and we call this introversion/extraversion - and basically arguing that one of the end of the spectrum is 'wrong' and can be fixed. Not to mention the fact that most actual research on the matter seems to indicate that introversion is, at least to some significant degree, innate, and at the very least can be distinguished at such an early age that it might as well be innate.

Honestly, it's not so different in my mind from believing gay people are gay because <insert some self-serving theory> instead of accepting that in lieu of full understand, we should maybe just assume they are actually gay.

Or Christians insisting that non-believers are in denial and even actively rejecting 'the Truth', actively unhappy, and that they have gaping God-shaped hole inside of them.

Or, for that matter, Christians insisting that other Christians are not happy or doing well because they don't have enough faith, are not trying hard enough, or because 'there must be some kind of sin in their life'.

The danger of such statements is that they have massive impact on the group your judging, and that they ultimately can never be fully refuted. What makes it worse is that, in my experience, most 'outliers' - whether gay, autistic, clinically depressed, etc. - already live with a permanent suspicion that they're just not trying hard enough and making excuses.

EDIT: to be clear, I do agree that any of these labels can be used as an excuse, and nothing is 100% fixed. So in context you might be right. I just feel it's important to note that there are many people who are truly introverted, and they should not feel bad or wrong about that.

You're right. I think actual introverts wouldn't feel so negative about it.

>Two kinds of people hide behind being an introvert: assholes and people afraid of other people, often a mixture of both.

False dichotomy. I love hanging out with people, and get on with a lot of people really well, but I need alone time in between or it becomes a hellish experience. Kind of like how I love being awake, but if I don't sleep regularly then being awake is really horrible.

Then again, extroverts who don't understand this probably think I'm an aloof asshole for not wanting to socialise with strangers all the time.

Then you're an actual introvert! Nothing wrong with that! I should have been clearer: There are introverts and then the aforementioned two kinds of people hiding behind the label.

Hope things improve. I can relate to a lot of what you are saying. Guessing you're probably at desert manor or siegel suites. For whatever it's worth, I'm younger and you really have got me thinking about a lot of the choices I've made and who I am as a person.

Happy Birthday for last week.

It's really tough to dig yourself out of a state where you feel depressed, disconnected from society, and I'd guess unwanted. I hope you can though, it sounds like you have a lot to offer.

I don't really know what to say because I haven't ever dealt with heroin addiction. But it sounds like you want to turn things even though you know that you are unlikely to change as a person at this point, isn't that enough to take a step in a different direction? Into a different social circle?

You also seem very self-aware which helps in most every social encounter.

There are two takeaways from modern neurology which are opposite and surprising.

One is along the lines of what you say, a truly shocking amount of what you might think is free conscious will is actually just machinery deterministically reacting to stimuli. Conversely, it's surprising how plastic that machinery is, it can be formed and reshaped to be wholly different through conscious thought and action.

There's a lot of unscientific woo about what you should do with food to make you healthy and most of it is baseless chatter, but there's pretty strong evidence that there _is_ something there even if we're not sure how to control it. Not just food though... exercise, light, meditation, the people you are around, the smell of the air, and a million other things all have influence over that machinery and manipulating them can manipulate you.

I know exactly how you feel. I fell into the same trap with heroin, and now, as you point out, it controls everything. But, again, it wasn't a bit-flip from normal to junkie, it was a slow process, then one day I realised that yes, the bit had flipped, and there was nothing I could have (easily) done about it, except to have led an entirely different life and been a different person. And that's the problem. After twenty years of heroin addiction, it defines you, in a way that makes it hard to give up. Rationally, of course, you know you should; but the habits become so ingrained that it can be hard to see how to change. The only time I managed to quit for longer than a few weeks was when I had a naloxone implant surgically inserted that made it physically impossible for opiates to work. Six months later, when it stopped working, I was back on the drugs, just to see if it was OK to try it, and within a week - blam! - addicted again... I know this sounds depressing, but I do feel there is scope to get out. But, if you are introverted like me, then heroin will have increased and strengthened that bubble around you, making a barrier between you and anyone else. It's hard to form close friendships at work when you have to lie all the time about a huge part of your life, your drug habit, and the isolation feeds back into more heroin use when you're alone, as a vicious cycle. So, quitting on its own is never going to work. You must (and this is what I am trying to do) replace the drug with something else, a hobby, some form of socialising, and work hard to make that a part of you, a part of your life, instead of the drug. And that also means cutting off your junkie friends, starting fresh, which when you're in your forties or fifties is no easy task - by now we've made most of the friends we'll ever have, and starting again is difficult. So, sorry I don't have any good or easy answers for you; but I wish you good luck going forward, and I definitely share the pain, and know how hard it will be. Take care!

I have found that the best way to get out of states like that, is force yourself into situations you like and that make you be social because of its inherited nature i.e. Get into a salsa dancing academy, get into a french course, or whatever similar thing you might like. Be so busy your mind has no time to think about addiction.

Belated happy birthday man.

Curious to chat if you'd like - life, shit, wisdom, pain. Hit me me@Danielfischer.com

Happy Birthday!

On the other hand it might just be your addiction talking.

Hang in there. I'm kinda in the same boat. I think bupenorpine did help me. I wish it was easier to get. I can say this, I believe it helped me with my drinking, and I'm on genetic bupenorpine, not the Suboxone(has nalaxone).

As to friends--I am very lonely. I think I'm friendly, but don't have friends. Part of my problem is I made friends with people much older than myself, and they die, and I am not a extrovert. It seems like all my friends were extroverts. When I was younger, it seemed easier to remain friends with exes, but as I've aged, they moved on, or as one told me, women can't be friends after a certain point in a relationship. If I knew that, I wish I didn't push for intimacy. I look back, and I miss the friend I made in that relationship more than anything else.

I haven't wanted to wake up in years, but I'm still here. Just when I think I've had enough of it, I have days where I feel o.k., not o.k. like in my twenties, but not suicidial.

I know exercise has been mentioned here too much, but light walks have really helped me. I do need to do them daily.

I really don't have any advice, other than hang in there. I do know we are not alone. I wish it was easier for men to find friends.

Sunlight and exercise helps me a lot, but when I am at my worse (heading in that direction now..) maintaining these good habits (also regularly eating, eating nutritious food, taking pride in my appearance/home) just evaporate.

I live in a major metro area and can't think of food worth leaving the house for when I used to be so into trying new places and love ethnic cuisine. Guess it's depression?

Everyone is miserable. Everyone is alone. Everyone escapes. But giving up is a fate worse than death in my eyes.

I'm roughly half your age, but I understand, I get it. But don't give up hope.

You can still change, no matter how deep into the darkness you are. You can still be happy. It just takes small steps; the first is to substitute heroin with something less addictive and harmful. It will be difficult, an almost impossible task, but if you have the will to do so, you can. You're cognizant of the fact that you have a problem, so you're already half of the way there.

I disagree re: willpower. I've seen serious junkies hit rock bottom over and over. Go to jail, be homeless, get beat up. And in jail they might talk about getting clean and I think even mean it, but the she gets out and OD's the next day. The brain chemistry is a powerful thing, something society needs to come to terms with -- that for some with addiction, medical, chemical intervention is needed. Having strong willpower to me is like saying someone has a pure soul a hundred years ago. I just don't see the value in the statement.

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