Comment by orblivion | Hacker News Reader

Comment by orblivion | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

Yeah, I get that. But it turns out that they're wrong. Are you suggesting that shippers try not to break things purely out of courtesy? Maybe, but I think incentives aren't aligned such that that can go a long way. With no other feedback, they want to get their job done quickly so that they can move on to the next, and get paid for moving more things.

If they're doing this purely out of courtesy, then yes, I could understand that being wrong about the fragility of bicycles could lead to such a disparity of broken things, since they pay no consequences for being wrong. However if there is a simple insurance policy, which I can only imagine any business would have with a shipping company, they are paying consequences for it, and they would have reason to learn, and try to treat bicycles a little more like televisions.

Apparently this isn't happening, but I don't understand why.

EDIT: I would add that the only explanation I have is that bicycles are less expensive than televisions. This implies that putting a television on the box leads the shipping company to believe that they have to put more time (aka money) into care for the box than they actually have to. This is what lead to my comment about fraud.

Bikes cost as much or more than televisions these days almost across the board. Obviously the cheapest bikes cost less than the most expensive televisions, but a decent 50" flat panel is around 600$ USD now and an entry level road bike is maybe 750-800$?

The US's bizarre bike culture never stops surprising me. I guess since it's so impractical, it gets treated as a lifestyle instead of a method of transportation. I bought the most expensive bike of my life last month (automatic hub-powered LED lights!) and despite having to customize the saddle pole and handlebars to fit me, it was $250 (with a 2 year insurance and maintenance plan). $800 for an entry-level road bike???

It's not just the US. People here in London would happily spend four figures on their (ultralight aerodynamic) bike.

My perspective: I used to be like you and spend around $250. The bikes would break more easily (although maybe with an insurance/maintenance plan I would have been happier).

Meanwhile, everyone else spends four figures a year on transportation (driving costs about £1000 a year, the tube costs the same). I figured if I would buy an expensive bike once it would justify the cost over many years.

I bought a folding bike (a brompton) rather than a road bike - it cost around £900. They last for decades if treated right. So the cost, divided over the years of use, is negligible compared to other modes of transport.

The bikes that the average truck-loader comes in contact with cost $120.

Doubtful. The largest mail order bike companies are rather upscale. Look at Canyon, Planet X, Rose, Bikes direct, and others for a sampling of the most popular mail deliver bike companies. These aren't fly-by-night sketchy retailers either, Canyon bikes are ridden by many pro teams despite not having a storefront presence.

Majority of bikes we sold at our shop cost around 200-300 USD for us to purchase (retail price would be around 2x that). This was in expensive Norway, and there were plenty of generic sports stores that sold bikes at down to 1/2 of what we did. So for to-retailer price in US, that 120 USD does not seem too crazy.

Don't forget that "good bikes" are actually very rare, especially if counted in volume (not price).

$120 would be the sale price of the bicycle, but presumably without sales tax since Americans don't include it when discussing price.

You can buy an adult mountain bike for £80 including 20% VAT in the UK. That's $100.

I've used one like this, it lasted less than 6 months of daily use before the sprockets, wheels, bearings and brakes were ruined.

http://www.tesco.com/direct/north-gear-rxt-mens-adults-mount...

Absolutely, but I was speaking to the experience of the loaders.

Edit: Sorry, I should have made that clearer in my previous comment.

You mean the fully assembled ones they ride or see others riding, right? It took me a bit to figure out you meant that and not the ones in the boxes they handle. That might be the confusion.

Shippers huck stuff around with little regard for the contents, particularly if they aren't blazoned all over with fragile/biohazard stickers. Fedex and UPS tend to be just about one-half step above the folks handling baggage at the airport, and how many times have you seen those people wing around suit-cases like they were throwing the hammer in the Olympics, and seeing just how far back they can toss from and still hit the conveyor belt?

If I had a nickel for every time I've had an Amazon purchase refunded or replaced because the delivery person smashed it to hell, or jammed it into a mailbox that was clearly too small, or left it out in the rain unwrapped, or even tossed it in the snowbank during a storm that dumped a foot and a half of snow and disappeared it until spring... I could probably buy a candy bar.

Bizarre. Probably 90% of my purchases are through Amazon (mostly through laziness); according to my Amazon history (which you can download, it's fun to play with the data), I've had 1,018 deliveries over the last 17 years.

I literally can't think of more than maybe 1 or 2 in all that time that have ever been damaged.

A solid example, with biting British commentary to boot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbNq2xdvU_g

I'm reasonably sure that's a New Zealand accent.

(I'm British, so I know it's not British.)

The news stories identify the commentator as Australian

Strange. I've never had a damaged Amazon item in 100+ items.

There's a story I like to tell about Amazon shipping.. I often get standard sized boxes with a single air pillow or nothing at all protecting the smaller package inside. The latter is what happened when my friend ordered a phonograph needle and barbell weights. Smash, smash.

Weird. I get the opposite. Order a lightbulb. Get a package thats the size of 5 laptops stacked. I get thats its a lightbulb but sheesh...its LED & plastic...you could have drop-kicked that into my postbox and it would have been fine.

The only item I've ever had arrive damaged was a bike. The mudguards were badly bent out of shape.

So you're saying that Amazon doesn't honor your insurance policy? I guess if that's generally true for shipping companies, and there's not much competition, that explains it. (in which case, tricking them into being more careful seems more ethically appropriate).

He said that they do honor it:

> ... If I had a nickel for every time I've had an Amazon purchase refunded or replaced because ...

> ...I could probably buy a candy bar.

Hah, looks like I forgot how expensive candy bars are. Okay I get it.

My bike is worth probably 10x my TV. I'm not saying it's representative, but it's certainly not unusual for bikes to cost as much as or more than TVs.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com