Hacker News Reader

Comment by realusername | Hacker News Reader

Not all propaganda posters were about destructing free will, some of them were also for improving the social status quo. Example: "I will be a chemist" - USRR, 1964 - http://i.imgur.com/DTMN0MY.jpg.

And I don't compare labour camps with advertising.

I compare governments ads "work harder for your country" and private ads "you look ugly, you should buy some of our makeup". Private ads are all about destroying free will too, that's exactly their point.

View on HN

They were so lucky to have a government that allowed them to become chemists.

Seriously, though, talk to some Soviet-era scientists. It was a good gig. You might of course bring up Academician Sakharov. But his dissodence was actually a result of the high status scientists had in the USSR. He thought his status would shield him from his critiques of the government.

I guess you missed my point. I'm sure the chemists had a good time.

Until companies can walk around with guns or threaten you with imprisonment for not paying their fees or "enjoying" their products, the two are nothing alike. Advertising doesn't use physical force.

Just responding to this dreary trope: if you don't pay taxes, under ordinary circumstances, you won't be imprisoned. Your paycheck will be likely garnished or some of your assets taken to cover your tax debt. For tax evasion to enter the realm of "now you're going to jail" (like Wesley Snipes) you've got to do a lot more than simply fail to write the gubmint a check.

You just proved my point... that's force and coercion. "They don't shoot you, they just steal or money!"

Whatever tax you owe isn't your money. It's the government's money, and by refusing to pay it, you're stealing from the rest of us. That's the government enforcing our property rights when it uses force to reclaim what's ours.

Oh, so they have claim to a percentage of my labor? without my consent? That sounds like something...

Your parents/legal guardians consented for you when you were a minor and could not make such an agreement.

When you reached the age of majority, you gave consent by continuing to live here.

(And if you think consent requires words, and not merely actions, try wordlessly walking out of a convenience store with a package of slim jims you didn't pay for.)

I find it endlessly amusing you're hypothetical for non-verbal consent is literally theft.

However, I agree; taxation is necessary for government to exist. I'm also not an anarchist. I see taxation as a necessary evil, but I refuse to not call it what it is. Like the case with most (all) necessary evils, I consider it a moral obligation to advocate for it's conservative application. So, sorry you find it offensive that I want the government to steal less of your labor. I hold no grudges towards people that would like to see their labor partitioned towards public works to whatever extent they see fit, but I maintain coercion is immoral.

Lastly, the "just move argument" is a real gem. "Don't like police brutality? just move." Talk about letting your privilege show...

Your hypothetical refusing to pay your tax is also theft; you are stealing from the rest of us.

I'm glad you agree that taxation is necessary for government to exist. Some day, I hope you'll come around to doing away with silly word games like "it's theft". Because it isn't.

If, as you say, I am merely being charged for services, what do I do If services are being offered which I morally oppose and don't want to be part of? I am still forced to (coerced) to pay for them (theft) regardless of my usage. For example, I am vehemently opposed to our current handful of military actions. I don't want my money going towards innocent loss of life or actions that promote it. You're answer is to simply uproot my life and move?

What do you think would happen if we could allocate our tax dollars personally however we see fit? With access to different public "services" being granted accordingly?

If you don't want to consent to paying for the benefits of living in a particular society, then don't be part of that society.

"Don't like police brutality? Just move!"

I don't think the "I will be a chemist" Soviet ad used physical force either.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com