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Comment by taneq | Hacker News Reader

I thought one of the major benefits of UBI was that, because it's universal, there's less stigma attached? If you're either "working" or "on the dole" then the latter makes you feel pretty useless. If everyone gets UBI then looking forward to yours is legitimized. It'd become no different to a tax return.

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Yes! A great example of this is Social Security (US national retirement income). SS is not mean-tested, and enjoys the fiction of "you get what you put into it." So there's no stigma attached in receiving it.

I do not support means-testing SS because I believe in the program and want to see it continue. Means-testing will make it indistinguishable from welfare and thus politically vulnerable. UBI is the same.

> fiction

This is key. The reality is irrelevant. What matters is how the culture chooses to interpret it. Social attitudes are not particularly rational.

Social Security recipients feel that they have "earned" their retirement income, though, because they paid into the system during forty-seven-or-so years of their working life.

UBI does not solve the basic problem that a good percentage of one's sense of personal worth is tied up in work. Giving people a check is not the same as giving them something meaningful to do with their life.

Personally I find it hard to support UBI on any large scale without more understanding of the unintended side effects.

UBI doesn't stop people from working - it provides the flexibility to chose to work at what is meaningful to you.

The reason unintended side effects happen is because they can't be articulated beforehand.

What if it’s not payed work but meaningful activities that leads to self worth. Many activities may not be generating direct economic value but may still contribute to society. Different types of environmental or community work are examples of that category.

I feel like there will still be a stigma attached. The people who are paying more in to UBI than they receive back will (rightly?) feel like they are propping up those who are not working and therefore paying less / nothing. I would not personally 'look forward' to receiving a UBI check if I know that my taxes have increased by more than the value of the UBI.

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