Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam | Hacker News Reader

Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

158 pointsdpflan124 comments

One of the authors is Ernesto Illy--yes that Illy[1]. He passed away a few years before this article was published but led the company's various multi-decade applied research projects.

[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto_Illy

My first machine to make espresso was a espresso/drip coffee combo. Not knowing any better, I was merely pulling strong coffee and not espresso shots. Then I got a stand alone espresso machine, much closer to the real deal but still a far cry from what a coffee roaster like Temple Coffee could make in their store. Finally, invested in a Breville BES870XL and after many trials and errors, my espresso shots are fairly indistinguishable from what the pros at the coffee roasting shops make.

Getting the beans from a roasting store like Temple or Verve or Ritual (Sac/San Fran area) makes all the difference in the world for taste and crema IMO.

The amount of crema is definitely tied to air exposure so the quicker you can use up your beans the better (under 2 weeks or so from exposure to air). Additionally, its been my experience that I have to adjust the grind setting to 1 step finer if the beans have been sitting for a very long time, past the 2 week mark or so. I do this because at original setting, the extraction begins at a much lower pressure threshold than usual, leading to under-extraction and weak, watered-down espresso with little to no crema. It'd be nice to know if anyone has studied this particular aspect of coffee beans needing to be ground finer to compensate for age to maintain consistency.

Ritual's coffee is terrible: acidic, unpleasant to the palate and lacking in aroma. I hope your coffee is better than theirs.

- disclosure: I'm Italian and I believe espresso in San Francisco sucks almost universally

Their single origin Sweet Tooth espresso was pretty amazing when I had it last year, you could really taste the cantaloupe in that particular version. Their Seasonal Espresso was not bad either but I did make both at home as opposed to drinking them inside a Ritual shop.

I actually quite like Ritual. shrug

Interesting. I don't consider myself to have a very refined coffee palate, but I came away with the same impression. I wonder if you've tried any of the Seattle espresso shops: Vita, Vivace, Cherry Street, Millstead, Slate, Ballard Coffee Works...

I've not found a lot of good espresso after moving to SF either. The best, albeit a bit overpriced, so far is at Reveille's on 4th. If you have suggestions..

Yes - Grand on 23rd and Mission. It's a tiny hole in the wall and they use four barrel beans I believe, but they make a damn good and consistent espresso.

While I agree with your assessment of Ritual's coffee, with all due respect, your being Italian alone does not establish your competence in judging espresso. I do understand espresso originates from Italy. I'm just allowing for the possibility that some Italians are poor judges of espresso and some non-Italians are excellent judges of same.

To my taste as a non-Italian, Blue Bottle espresso is delicious. The baristas at the Blue Bottle location in the Financial District usually make a scrumptious cappuccino.

You're equivocating. A random person knows his culture in a general way and is competent to make comparisons. The op was essentially saying his overall observation of espresso in the US does not overlap with his experience in Italy.

Having lived in Europe myself, I also know this to be true. Further, that it happens in many food categories gives credence to the espresso observation: cheese, wine, bread, etc. It goes both ways: hamburgers, Mexican food, Japanese food, etc, in Europe are not the same as you find in the US, Mexico, and Japan. It's not so much a critique as an observation about how hard it is to replicate cultural foods.

But I do have to add that people in the US have this attitude that they can borrow and replicate a cultural food, and then they hype it and get smug about--without realizing they haven't captured the essence of the original. How hard can it be to operate an espresso machine after all? Well, very hard if you include selecting and blending beans from around the world, roasting them right, grinding them just so, and dosing and tamping it right.

I am from India, living in the US and I have seen tons of Indian snobs saying the Indian food in the US is just not good enough. I just can't agree. I can imagine that the probability of finding good espresso may be much higher in Italy - maybe every corner cafe makes only the best coffee. But the idea that good espresso cannot be found anywhere in the US (or SFO), which is home to many Europeans, just seems a bit of an exaggeration.

Most Indian restaurants do not serve common Indian cuisine; no average Indian consumes saag paneer or "paneer tikka masala" on a regular basis. North Indians, on the other hand, have things like daal regularly; daals in Indian restaurants in the US suck almost universally. I haven't even seen a restaurant that serves rajma.

Maybe South Indian food is different, but I haven't had good North Indian food anywhere in the US.

I grew up in Puné and almost all restaurants served stuff like paneer tikka masala. That's what going out to eat was for us. At home we had home cooked Maharashtrian food. In the restaurants we had "North Indian" fancy dishes lol which were almost never made at home (So I've never had daal in restaurants). I see it the same way here. A North Indian may view it differently.

Typically, coffee in Europe isn't the artisanal, single origin stuff one is probably used to on America's west coast. It's a different food. Especially in Italy, where they also traditionally mix in Robusta beans with the Arabica.

Robusta produces a better cream but is flat in taste. Arabica gives you the hops to draw the analogy.

Flat = nuanced!? Because definitely with beer I find it very questionable how breweries out-compete each other with making hoppier and hoppier beers that get completely dominated by it.

And the selection of one be all and end all criteria, in case of beer hops, in case of coffee the pureness of the beans I guess, that everyone measures itself on, seems actually very American to me.

It's not a difficult process, the problem is there is little incentive to get to make it 'correctly'. Good pizza for example costs significantly more to make and you can only afford to serve it if you customers are willing to pay for it.

PS: Chocolate seems to be the worst offender, IMO. Good chocolate is pricy and has a poor shelf life, but tastes so much better than even expencive chocolate you can find in the US. Even when you can find a good brand companies just tend to make worse product over time, because that's how you maximize profit.

It's hilarious watching people argue over preferences as though they were facts.

Person 1: Steak is the best food!

Person 2: No, pasta is the best food!

Person 1: I am from Kobe Japan and steak is best!

Person 2: I am from Italy and pasta is best!

And so it goes. Both people are right and wrong at the same time. Preferences aren't universal facts.

How is steak pasta still not a thing? It's so obvious.

Could it be that taste differs in different parts of the world?

Just trying to have everyone get along and get to be right.

American coffee snob here (not that I necessarily have good taste though): I was blown away by the espresso in Italy. On a two-week trip, every espresso I had there was better than any espresso I've had in the U.S. Which isn't to say I haven't had great coffee in America, just not great espresso. I think mostly Americans just don't care about espresso.

Pet peeve: high-end restaurants in the U.S. mostly don't care about the coffee they serve. A high-end restauarant will employ a bar tender, a pasty chef, a somellier, but not a barista. So you enjoy a fantastic meal and then when you order an espresso at the end, you get something the server pulled out of an automatic machine. Nooo, why!?

Couldn't agree more on the pet peeve. I've stopped having coffee after a great meal at a restaurant because inevitably they'll ruin it with a cup of something awful. Even in places like Vancouver, SF or Seattle with a very strong coffee culture, and where pretty much anyone in the food industry knows a good coffee.

Yup the main reasons high end restaurants do this is because of consistency, a cup of coffee from a nespresso would always yield a 6/10 cup.

Restaurants are starting to get it. I've been to a handful of places in the past couple years where I left thinking "somebody gave a shit!" (which is really all it takes) -- Places that come to mind are Vetri, Osteria, and Zahav in Philly, Agern and NoMad in NYC.

So if not espresso, what kind of coffee do Americans drink, but that's any good?

I'm just very used to italian-style espresso in the cafés and turkish at home, as that's the cultural norm around here (croatian adriatic coast; basically ex-venetian colony ;) ).

I'd like to give other styles a shot, but only provided they're worth a damn. Can't say I've been impressed by whatever the muck they serve at McDonald's is, or by home drip machines. Nor instant ofc...

My morning cup of joe is usually made in an Aeropress from freshly roasted and ground beans. Typically Counter Culture or Larry's beans (local suppliers), light roast. I use a burr grinder.

I sometimes also make Turkish w/o the cardamon, usually with a bit of sugar, maybe with a splash of cream (blasphemy I know). But I will also occasionally use a French press, a Chemex, or make cold brew. My wife uses a Moka pot, and I will sometimes use that to make a Cubano, though it's not nearly as good as a Cubano made in a pump espresso machine.

It just depends on my mood.

I gave up trying to make good espresso at home after getting frustrated with a Gaggia machine. My fault, not the machine's, but in the end I decided it was too much effort for 1-2 oz of coffee. :-(

To answer your question: as long as the beans are freshly roasted and ground, and the coffee made with care, I'm not particularly partial to any technique. You can even have a mighty fine cup of drip coffee. I think espresso is just a much more demanding technique to make well.

About instant: I know Israelis and South Africans who prefer it, but no Americans.

Maybe the worst way to brew coffee: percolators. Oh the horror.

Well, that, and if I'm not mistaken, the "default" coffee in Italy is a shot of espresso compared to the cup of filter coffee most of us drink in the US every day.

Maybe it's a matter of preference? I really miss just having a big pot of drip coffee. The machines where I am now (Europe, but not a part known for its cuisine) are all these Gaggia things that make a lot of noise and take ages to produce a cup of kind of flavorless, mediocre coffee, even with decent(ish) beans.

Third wave espresso is acidic on purpose.

It's more than that though. "Citrus" was a flavor that roasters were trying to bring out, which is fine (and interesting). However, what happened with hoppiness in IPAs happened with acidity in American espresso. As roasters' palates got accustomed to a particular roast, they needed to keep going further in that direction to create a similar flavor. Thus, escalating acidity, and the rise of the sour bombs in 2011 or so. I feel like things have tapered off a bit in the past couple years (at least on the East coast).

I feel like sometimes I'm the only person who does not care for ritual or bluebottle. I usually just keep my mouth shut in fear of people freaking out. Wayyyy too acidic.

I haven't been to Ritual, but for places like Blue Bottle, Sightglass, Four Barrel, etc it might have to due with them using pretty light roasts combined with a V60 (or the slightly different pour over brewer that Blue Bottle uses). I like my coffee bright / acidic though.

Filtered coffee is very different from espresso. For a long time, I used to believe the old adagio that American coffee is just too weak, but then I started to appreciate it for what it is, and I enjoy it a lot. I wouldn't take the fruity (acidic?) coffee that Ritual and their cadre prepare as espresso, but as pour over, I haven't had anything that compares.

It took me a while to figure this out.

I also grew up with italian espresso and I always wondered why all these crafty, specialist roasters (all over the world) can't do a drinkable espresso and always end up with undrinkable acid in a cup.

A lot of italian espresso blends are a mix Arrabica/Robusta. Robusta beans create the sought-after strong/bitterish italien espresso flavor and probably also reduce/mask/balance the acidity.

Robusta beans according to the crafty roasters are low quality garbage, and they only care about arrabica beans. Clever marketing by the arrabica industry? Robusta beans have a bad reputation because they are majorly used by cheap coffee brands - but not all robusta beans are the same either.

So because third wave/hipster coffee shops only do arrabica, but italian style espresso needs a blend. That's why we can't have a good things.

I simply order espresso machiato when i want an espresso, the bit of milk foam reduces acidity to an acceptable level.

There is a longer article somewhere on nytimes about this topic. can't find it anymore.

A lot of quality Italian coffees are marketed as 100% arabica. This said, I've never worked behind the bar and the Italian food industry is very crafty, so anything's possible.

You sure they are blends for espresso? Italian brands or "american" brands.

Not sure about the authority of this page:

> Most of these Italian blends (Illy is the exception) clearly make effective and imaginative use of coffees of the robusta species

http://www.coffeereview.com/italy-seen-from-america-nine-gen...

Well, in Italy it's all either for espresso or "moka" (percolator), used more or less interchangeably (with different results of course).

http://www.lavazza.co.uk/uk/at-home/blends/caffe-espresso.ht...

(Lavazza has a number of other "100% arabica", including Qualità Oro that is more or less the golden standard - pun intended).

http://www.segafredo.it/it/a-casa/caffe/moka/emozioni-100-ar...

Illy we already said.

I personally don't wander beyond these three vendors (Segafredo is from my hometown, Lavazza is the most ubiquitous, Illy is the mainstream high-quality choice), but there are likely more. To be fair, there are also a lot of Robusta mixes as you go down, but the "100% arabica" brands is firmly at the high end.

Thoughts on Lavazza? I've settled on them for all of my home espresso making, and I think it tastes great. Definitely open to alternatives, though. (Local specialty shops isn't really an option for me; online ordering preferred.)

Lavazza together with stovetop mocha machines are a solid choice IMO. Plus you can buy that brand all over the world. You won't win any specialty points though...

Not a fan. Illy is by far the best option for espresso. Otherwise the best cheap alternative I've found is actually cafe la llave. Makes a great espresso and americano.

Thanks for the tip. I'm hunting around for alternatives, and will try a few to see if I prefer them to Lavazza.

You may be on to something, and you're right there is Robusta available that is supposed to be good.

Another difference is that American crafty houses are roasting lighter than in Italy. For whatever reason, Americans are following a different craft and not optimizing their espresso recipes nearly as well as the Italians and not using the same goals and procedures as they do.

And frankly I'm convinced some of the roasters simply don't know what they're doing. They've been told that roasting light is good, and they don't realize that light roasting with espresso brewing is risky. Especially with bean types that are known to be acidic.

I am solidly in the third wave camp. I like the origin flavors that I get in a lighter third wave roast that I simply don't get in an Italian shot. I do agree that a bit of milk tones down the acid a bit, and I feel that the origin flavors can through come through even in something like a cortado.

Another note, isn't the ratio for espresso in the States different than in Italy. When I was a barista in Chicago we did 1:2 coffee to water. I thought I heard that in Italy 1:3 or 1:4 was more popular. I may be wrong

This reminds me of a Medium post I read recently, "Why Espressos in America are not Good?":

https://medium.com/@sinzone/why-is-espresso-in-america-so-ba...

In my opinion the only true Italian Espresso in the Bay Area is made at Cavalli Caffe. It’s a simple small bar with no interior design, no fancy coffee beans, and no extravagant machines. Cavalli is owned and operated by one man from Naples.

As coffee ages, especially in the first 2 weeks, it degasses CO2, thus the one way valves on most coffee bags. Since CO2 has a lot to do with crema, it's usually lacking in coffees that go past that 2 week mark. It really depends on the coffee, but I find grinding older coffees at a finer grind setting may help you pull your shot at similar parameters (input/output/time), but more often than not, I prefer updosing by half a gram or so to achieve balance in the shot. Also, this is probably heresy to any Italian reading, but I don't consider crema a super important aspect of the espresso shot. That part of the shot contains many of the bitter compounds of the extracted coffee, which is why espresso shots are commonly served with a demi-spoon, used to stir the shot and incorporate/dissipate the crema.

The amount of crema is definitely tied to air exposure so the quicker you can use up your beans the better

Check out this simple vacuum sealer: http://www.pump-n-seal.com/

No affiliation, I've just been using this device for years. It's basically a simple bike pump in reverse. Put your coffee in a mason jar, give it a few good pumps, and you have delicious crema for weeks and weeks. Every time you pop the top the aroma is like you're opening a fresh bag.

One of those things that you're surprised most coffee shops and connoisseurs don't use religiously as it makes such a huge difference.

Coffee shops go through 5 bags of beans a day. I doubt they have as many stale bean problems.

Coffee shops that have single-origin beans only used for pour overs, french press, etc., can typically use the same bag over the course of at least multiple days, sometimes weeks. Two shops around me at least keep them in nice jars, but no vacuum sealing.

Ah did not think about single-origin. Yes those could sit for a while...

A third wave coffee shop owner mentioned to me once about using beans beyond that two week period. That after sometime they come back around to be enjoyable again. IIRC he was only referring to espresso. I haven't been able to find much info about it, and I don't make espresso at home, but it might be something worth exploration.

Just got the BES870XL last weekend, and have been using Four Barrel Friendo Blendo espresso. It's been fantastic, though I wish the steamer was a bit stronger.

Espresso is a remarkable concoction. The crema, aroma, and taste is as much a product of the process (pressure, temperature, time, and dose) as it is the raw ingredients (the beans, roasting, freshness). Everything has to come together at the same time and in the right way with little room for error, otherwise you end up with bitter hot liquid.

Pulling a righteous shot of espresso takes a serious amount of practice and I am glad that there are attempts at quantifying the magic of a skilled barista.

The coffeeshop in my building (Spyhouse on 945 Broadway) just won #1 roaster in the US award. It takes 3 months for an employee to certify as a barista. The coffee they make is the best tasting espresso I've ever had in my life. Clearly they know what they're doing. The coffeeshop down the street has a similar setup, but it's not even 80% as good. I'm ruined.

For me, the only espresso which comes close to the Italian original (I visit southern Europe every year) is served at Eataly (the Flatiron location in Manhattan). I've tried many smaller coffeshops in Manhattan and Boston - often highly rated on Yelp - but they are not even close. Always a bit burnt or sour - a well done espresso is neither.

I've found that there is no correlation between Yelp ratings of a coffeeshop and actual coffee quality. It's just not what reviewers are necessarily looking for, especially compared to things like power outlets and ambience.

There's an app called Work Hard Anywhere that breaks down all of these other factors for a coffee shop in a way that Yelp doesn't. So if you only want to see the highest rated coffee at places with wifi, you can run that query.

http://workhardanywhere.com

Disclosure: I've been a beta tester for a while; I use it a lot.

Doesn't Eataly have various vendors so there's no guarantee that you're getting espresso from the right one? I'm going to be vacationing in the area soon and getting good espresso is on my list.

It has a variety of stands with all sorts of food. But the front coffee shop (and I think the only dedicated one) is great.

There are different styles of espresso, with roasters and barista optimizing for very different tastes - the Italian/Mediterranean style is one, the "third wave" style that's more prevalent on the North American west coast and Australia (Seattle/Portland/Melbourne/London UK) is another, and Scandinavian/Northern European being a third.

Then there's the many people who go to a coffee shop for a drink with a ton of syrup in it, so don't really get as much impact off the taste of the coffee, and will generally care more about the atmosphere and service.

Between the two factors, general audience reviews like Yelp lose a lot of their value if you're particular about your coffee.

Completely agree, Italian espresso was considered great decades ago, but standards have risen faster elsewhere since then. Italy still makes the best espresso _machines_ such as Simonelli. My experience of coffee there is coffee roasted so dark as to be considered burnt.

See the World Barista Championship winners, not a single Italian yet, unfortunately. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Barista_Championship

> Italy still makes the best espresso _machines_ such as Simonelli

Even that I think they're losing ground on - Slayer or Synesso out of Seattle, or Mod Bar out of Indiana are pretty great, certainly right up there with any Simonelli or La Marzoco.

For consumer level espresso machines, I think Breville (Australian) has been blowing away just about everything under 2k$. It's been interesting to watch them bring more modern control tech into the cheap market.

Also, I know some of the top Italian manufacturers have started sourcing at least some of their most technical electrical components out of Seattle already

Searching Foursquare / Yelp for "third wave coffee" vs "coffee" tends to turn up more relevant results for me. (But I still don't pay much attention to star ratings.)

That just blew my mind. My company had it's main office in the same building as Eataly as recently as 6 months ago. I've never been inside Eataly, kept meaning to! Grrr...

Just for the benefit of those looking for great coffee shops, you're speaking of Spyhouse in Minneapolis[1], right?

1: https://foursquare.com/v/spyhouse-coffee/52408489498e959bae4...

Correct.

Bull Run on Lyndale might be better.

I think Bull Run has the best espresso in Minneapolis for sure.

I've always loved espresso, and it is indeed difficult to pull a great shot. To learn more about the mechanics of it, I got a manual EspressoForge[0]. Combined with a good manual grinder (Lido 2), a thermometer, a scale, and a pressure gauge, you can control the main variables* by hand. Steep learning curve, but once you get it, there's something immensely satisfying about balancing all the variables and seeing that perfect tiger-stripe crema pour out.

I'll be studying this article for a while.

* I also roast my coffee beans, but a trusted coffee roaster will work too.

[0] http://espressoforge.com/

Pro tip: If you make espresso, try an Espresso Tonic, and espresso shot pulled over half a glass of tonic water and ice. It will change your world.

Also great in a flavored Pellegrino — one of the most popular drinks at my local shop.

I can't believe David Schomer's name hasn't come up yet, and only a passing reference to his shop Espresso Vivace.

ftfa: > Only recently, some aspects of the Physics and Chemistry behind the espresso coffee foam have attracted the attention of scientists.

Leaving the weasel-words aside, David at least initiated work on creama (and much more) in 1990s w/ his work, recorded in Espresso Coffee: Professional Techniques[0] c. 1996.

He is camped firmly in the space he helped define in the 90s, and doesn't appear to be going away. He's (in)famous for touring the other shops in Seattle and trying their coffee (espresso), and leaving the cups barely touched, muttering of "lemon defects". After 20 years parked where he is stylistically, he's not getting the attention of people looking for 'new hotness', but if you're for a coffee with its roots in taking measurements, iterating, iterating, iterating and sticking w/ principles at the expense of current fashion, Espresso Vivace is worth a trip. I prefer the "cart" which is a literal hole in the wall beside Chase Bank on Broadway[1].

I'm not a "fan" of many things, and his coffee isn't always my favourite, but seeing no mention of him yet strikes me as absurd.

pre-edit: scanning TFA has me scratching my head even more -- referring to the grounds as "powder" is just wrong. If you're going to bother to fuss this hard over coffee and technique, pedantry here is required.

edit: more links, date clarification

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Espresso-Coffee-Professional-David-Sc...

[1] http://espressovivace.com/index.php/retail/sidewalk-bar/

Vivace is certainly one of my favorite coffee shops in Seattle. Thanks for the background, I never knew all the work that was going into my cup.

Yeah I thought the same! Definitely been my favorite coffee in Seattle, especially the Nico, which I haven't found anywhere else. Now that I know they actually did all that research I like it even more :)

You can actually simulate this at home with just a moka pot; no need for a fancy ultra-expensive espresso machine. Pour just a tiny amount of the espresso into a cup with sugar and beat it really hard with a spoon. Then pour the rest of the coffee into the same container. Voila, crema, or at least something that looks and feels like crema. I think this is a Cuban-American (maybe originally Cuban) innovation and growing up it was always referred to as "espumitas" (translated: little bubbles). The caveat is that you have to like your coffee sweetened for it to be useful. (Cubans always drink espresso sweet.)

I've been using my moka pot for a year but didn't know about this trick. I'll have to try it tomorrow, thanks for the tip!

I consider Cuban cafe con leche an amazing beverage.

Exactly. For best results do it with the very first coffee that rises from the moka.

Are you sure? I was always taught the foreshot will make you go blind.

This. I also boil the water first in the pot, (meanwhile setting the coffee, etc) then take gloves and put the top on. This prevents the ground coffee from overheating and burning. It rises in 5-10 seconds.

Also take the very first coffee that rises.

Oh, I also use a milk frother. Heat milk on the micro and the froth it, making sure only micro bubbles form. And trying to make sure no much air mixes in. (which causes bad big bubbles)

This is a really good idea! I'm definitely trying this with my moka pot.

I read that before, but what do you mean exactly? Do you pick up the moka while it's still bubbling and pour?

Yes, exactly that.

Thanks, I'll give that a shot.

> Cubans always drink espresso sweet.

Is it because Cuban coffee is always smoky and overroasted? Or maybe I just bought the wrong Cuban coffee.

Cuban espresso is often made with robusto beans which are very strong. So your theory might be true.

Many cuban restaurants I have been to in Miami use Café Bustelo which to be honest probably wouldn't be so crappy if the roast-to-serve-delta was lower. Robusto beans get a bad wrap.

Café Bustelo at least comes in vacuum packed bricks, so roast-to-serve delta probably isn't that bad compared to most commercial coffee. In any case, it's not responsible for making me feel like I've just smoked 6 packs of cigarettes every time I drink one.

I hear you. I use to make Bustelo when I would occasionally smoke cigars on a nice summer day... even then I would add cream.

I'm so used to Café Bustelo from a moka pot that I find almost all coffee-shop espresso to be unpleasantly light. I actually pack the grounds extra tight and use lower heat to make sure I get an even darker and richer brew.

I'm almost certain that the primary reason is a general preference for sweets among Cubans. But it's possible that the dark roasts commonly used are part of it.

Espresso machines need not be fancy or ultra-expensive. That's a terrible myth. The best one I've found (in terms of quality espresso and reliability) is the Delonghi basic model and costs $99.[1] The Italian Americans I know also use this model, despite having tried others.

[1]https://www.amazon.com/DeLonghi-EC155-Espresso-Cappuccino-Ma...

I bought this exact one as a Christmas present for my mother back in 2013 and it broke within minutes of use. It felt shoddily built with very flimsy plastic parts. Thankfully Amazon has a great return policy so it was no big deal. I should add that I have a rough touch and it's always possible that that particular unit was defective.

Something else for people to consider: a moka pot will actually make stronger coffee than an espresso machine, so many people might actually prefer a moka pot.

Sorry to hear that. I have seen these machines last years, beyond 10 years or more.

What's an Italian American? I'm asking because an Italian grows up in a coffee culture very different than the American. E.g. what you do around the water cooler South Europeans do around the coffee machine.

If an Italian American is an American that grew up in America and has Italian ancestors... well, I can't see how that's relevant when it comes to coffee.

And sorry for the slight offtopic, but Americans always looked fun when talking about their 1/16th Navajo and their Irish great great grandparent :-)

I mean Italian immigrant. The guy I'm thinking of right now lived in Rome until his mid-thirties.

I had the precursor to that as my first ever machine - some absolutely love shots out of it. A lot of practice, but once you had it down, easily the best cheap one out there.

Those cheap plastic coffee machines actually are pretty poor, and tend to break fast -- planned obsolescence at its finest. I recommend going a step up and buying something like a Rancilio Silva [1]. All metal, has replaceable, serviceable parts, has a good community of tweakers who document mods for things like temperature control, lasts practically for ever.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Rancilio-Espresso-Machine-Stainless-1...

Agreed. I have a similar machine, the Gaggia Classic, and couldn't be more pleased with its overal build quality. Makes it a pleasure to use--I actually look forward to making the next morning's espresso as I'm going to bed at night!

Silvia, not Silvia.

And then fit a https://mecoffee.nl PID.

Yep! This is also an essential step in preparing a "cortadito", which is sweet espresso with a dash of evaporated milk. Absolutely amazing.

I've seen Italians (southern Italians) do that, too.

Does an espresso really need the crema?

In Italy, espresso is simply called caffe. When you order coffee, you get an espresso. At home, many still use a caffettiera (sorry, do not know the word in English). A caffettiera will not produce any noticeable crema, but it is still an espresso.

I never drink coffee (I am way too energetic as is), but in Italy I constantly drink it since it is cultural. In fact, I leave tonight for Italy, so I expect a coffee soon after landing (after many many hours).

Caffettiera = moka pot. I wouldn't be so bold as to argue coffee technicalities with an italian :), but espresso is technically different, mostly in regards to extraction through pressure as well as heat.

It could very well be. Americans (or better yet, foodies) tend to care about minute details regarding food. In Italy, you go to a cafe/bar and order wine. No wine list, just red or white. You order a blonde/red/dark beer. No labels. Of course, you can specify brands, but in the US, ordering something simply by saying coffee/beer/wine is unheard of.

I think one of the reasons is that ordering red/white wine in Italy will get you something palatable. While it's certainly possible to order a house red or a house white at many places in the US, it might be undrinkable. So there's more of a need to specify.

Similarly with coffee. If I order coffee in the afternoon in the US, chances are that I will get a pot that has been sitting on the hot plate for a couple hours. Specifying an espresso drink will at least ensure that it's fresh.

a caffettiera is nothing but a crude, up-side-down espresso machine.

It is still espresso. I have no idea why you say it is not. Just pack the coffee grounds as you would on a espresso machine and you will get your crema. Though, it is a crude espresso machine, so don't expect a miracle.

When you order coffee, you get an espresso.

My daughter was just in Italy, and granted, she probably didn't stray from the tourist areas. But she said that she had to ask for espresso, or they would assume: She's an American so she must want coffee.

With that said, she still raves about the espresso.

I'm curious what others may have to say about which regions have great independent shops (or franchises, if such exist). I'm lucky to travel all over the world for work, in part because I can taste-tour espresso culture everywhere. There are scant few places with consistently good espresso (read: flavorful, non-bitter shots with rich, oily crema). Australia has proven to be the steady best. I've been thoroughly disappointed by espresso in Italy, France, San Francisco, and so many other places.

I'm lucky to live close to one of the best espresso shops, which is the one which taught me that espresso shouldn't be bitter (Metto Coffee in Mount Pleasant, SC). They use beans from Zoka, specifically Espresso Cuatro, in combination with great equipment, water treatment, and mentorship from the owners.

In my experience at home, the beans make the most difference. Even a cheap grinder and equally cheap Krups espresso machine can give you a decent shot if you use distilled water and great beans (such as the Cuatro I cite above). As others have said, there's great joy in iterating your way towards pulling consistently good shots at home.

Well if you like espresso made from beans by Zoka, then drop by Seattle some time. Zoka has a few spots in town, great place to work, study or meet up with folks.

Honestly there's a bunch of really great coffee shops around here, well and a few terrible ones, can't say if they're the best, but it's not hard to get a decent cup.

Several years before this publication, Ernesto Illy had an article in Scientific American: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-complexity-of-...

The article is funny in one respect: SciAm is pretty strict against anything remotely resembling corporate PR disguised as science reporting. However, it was such a good article, and most of the science community is so caffeine addicted, that the editors gave him a pass.

Most people not familiar with espresso making believe the most important piece of equipment is the espresso machine itself. The most important piece of equipment is the grinder. A grinder that can grind beans to the correct consistency will make a mediocre espresso machine seem amazing. You can buy the most expensive espresso machine in the world and use a bad grinder and always have bad results.

Exactly! Grinder > beans > machine.

My hat is off to any scientist can create a NIH funded research project out of sampling espresso :-) Reminds me when my daughter got an independent study project to understand social behaviors of associated players in shared simulations. Basically I had complained that she was playing WoW instead of doing her homework, so she found a way to make it her homework.

That aside, food foams? What is the reasoning for giving these their own category?

Hipster coffee and Italian coffee are very different. The former is characterized by "fruit" flavors, which a lot of people taste as just acidic, where Italian coffees are more base and tannic, owing (I think) to higher levels of the cheaper arabica bean in their blends.

As someone whose drink is a "ristretto" (which is mostly the crema) the espresso in a given little italy vs. something served by someone under the age of 50 is very different. The closest thing I could find to a standard Italian coffee in SF was at Mara's Italian Pastries in north beach.

Could a hipster do it? Sure. Would I ever line up or wait for their explanation to find out? No.

Ristretto is just a shot that's pulled a few seconds less than "normal", so all the coffee from the portafilter isn't extracted into your cup. If you tell any barista to pull you a short shot, they'll understand (same thing). When I was a barista, our normal espresso shots were always ristretto.

Our beans also came shipped from Italy. They had a use-by date that was months in the future.

Surprised to see no mention of the Aeropress yet.

Only way I'll make coffee.

Me too. I got one about 9 months ago, after wasting my life with various machines, moka pots, etc. Ditched them all after trying the Aeropress, with the "inverted method". Looks like some kind of cheap plastic sex toy, but goddammit it makes fantastic coffee.

So it is a cheap plastic sex toy then ;)

A good cup of coffee is about as good a sex. It's in the same ballpark.

Huge fan of my AeroPress too (so much that I have a repo full of brewing guides [0]). I just wish they would drop that whole calling its coffee "espresso" bit.

[0]: https://github.com/tedmiston/aeropress

The Aeropress is genius!

A bit off topic, but I've just spent 3 minutes trying to figure out how to scroll this website on mobile before realizing that it scrolls sideways.

Huh? No it doesn't. Are you at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12489523 ?

I thought this article was going to be about the sky rocketing prices of coffee at artisan coffee shops and that a coffee bubble is upon us.

I have been to Florida over the season 2015->2106. It was practically impossible to get anything palatable with at least a minuscule similarity to what we call a coffee in Austria. Austrian coffee culture is close to Italian. Starbucks has a hard time there as well. Why spend loadsvof money on a second class mug when you get much better a lower price plus culture for free?

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