Hacker News Reader

Comment by robotron | Hacker News Reader

Maybe some people have a different definition of "progress". I would argue that a dumbed-down device is geared more towards luddites.

View on HN

This is the way technology has always progressed. The first cars required extensive knowledge to drive and were completely open to modification. Modern cars don't even allow you to adjust the choke and the gas pedal isn't hooked up to the engine directly. When you push on the gas the cars computer decides how much gas to feed the engine. Modern cameras come in two different varieties: cameras for normal people and professional cameras. Why would computers be any different? I can't think of any technology that became mainstream without there being a dumbed-down version for people to use. I think by your definition most people are luddites. They aren't interested in technology, they're just interested in the benefits it provides.

You can still do plenty of tinkering with cars. In fact, one of the things that I love about Hyundai is that last I looked, they provide their entire tech/service manual free, online. I used this to swap out my thermostat, to replace the fuel filter, to swap in a bigger sway bar, to take apart my dashboard, all kinds of things I'd never really even thought of handling myself, except that the information was there for me.

By comparison, you're not supposed to change your iPad's battery by yourself.

You can still do plenty of tinkering with some cars. E.g. you're not supposed to change the battery on the Prius yourself either.

Suffice to say, not all manufacturers are the same and not all products are the same. And frankly, so long as the tinkerers are being serviced, I don't see society as having lost anything yet, just because a single more appliance-y product has hit the market.

And --specifically to the matter at hand-- particularly not when the appliance-y product in question has a first-class, standards-compliant web browser.

Right, but if you were to change the battery in your Prius (and publish instructions on how to do it) you might void your warranty but you're not going to get sued under the DMCA. It seems insane to me that something that could have dangerous side effects (changing a battery in a complex vehicle) is less regulated than code.

Don't you usually pay more for the "professional" cameras or the "professional" phones. Apple seems to play it the other way. Charging more for the dumber hardware.

This type of passive-aggressive attitude towards end-users is not helpful. People who buy the iPad are not doing so because they are too dumb to be programmers. They are buying it because it meets their needs, not yours. To you it's a dumbed-down device. To them, it may be the first computer they can confidently use without your help.

To be honest, the majority of the passive-aggressive attitude that I see is coming from iPad supporters, not enthusiasts.

I say that I am disappointed in it because of the App Store and suddenly I'm the one being called a luddite, being accused of wanting to keep the poor masses down, and other silly things.

I think any technology enthusiast will tell you that they would love nothing more than to never have to do tech support for peoples computers. I assure you, that part of the iPad is universally loved.

The disappointment some of us feel is because we were hoping for a tool for us to use as well, and it's not really what we were hoping for.

People will buy it because of the hype, they think it will meet their needs, and those perceived needs will be defined in the marketing. Really it's about fear, the fear of learning. People now know they need a computer, but they're terrified of learning to use it, and they're not really interested in computers anyway. As a cheap, disposable, toy-like unit the iPad can likely succeed in that market. It's not so much that dumbed-down computers discourage learning, more that they justify inability. Those of us who deal with constant tech support from friends and family or even at work know all too well the cost of ignorance. People in this age are expected to read and write, but using a computer in powerful ways is considered magic and unobtainable, this is to everyone's detriment. I have an analogy: morbidly obese people given electric carts to wheel around walmart in.

No, this device meets a real need. Not everyone is buying it because they are easily-duped consumers (whereas you have mastered the fine art of seeing through marketing messages...).

Specifically, those friends and family who constantly call you for tech support are friendly enough when they see you, but they deeply resent having to deal with you every time their computer breaks down. It's not personal. They just hate that it's "their fault," or that they have to lie because they really were surfing sketchy porn sites. The iPad solves that need.

People in this age are expected to read and write, but using a computer in powerful ways is considered magic and unobtainable, this is to everyone's detriment.

I think that's just it: it seems (and for most people, actually is) far harder to learn to work a computer in a powerful way than it is to learn to read and write. The number of facts you have to know to properly administer a modern OS is staggering. One could reasonably argue that the iPad has gone too far in the "easy" direction, but it seems difficult to argue against the idea that computers thus far have been "too hard". If we can provide the ability for people to achieve powerful results with their computers without having to learn the intricacies of their OS/hardware, we're doing good and unleashing precious talent. Every minute spent (by anybody who's not a sysadmin) dealing with file system errors and driver conflicts is a minute not doing productive or creative work.

I agree with this. Part of the problem is full featured computers have been the only game in town for a long time. Really they have been oversold to people who only need something like an iPad. I just think it's disappointing that, given a chance to learn and explore, most people choose not to. Certainly literacy is much less of an obstacle than computer literacy. Maybe it's too optimistic to favor a higher standard. The barriers between information and people have never been lower though.

I guess I'm just not sure that it is a higher standard for the average non-computery person to have to learn a bunch of otherwise-irrelevant-to-their-task computer junk. Am I worse off for not [having spent the time to] know much about my Honda works? Occasionally, yes; but, overall? Definitely not!

Reply on news.ycombinator.com