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Comment by xarope | Hacker News Reader

In contrast to this story, my wife (a doctor) did attend to an ailing passenger on a transoceanic flight. The attendants were more than helpful, and my wife expressed surprise at how well stocked their medical kit was (drugs etc).

After the flight, the airline gave her some duty free goodies on the spot, and a few days later, a one-way business class ticket (I guess to make up for the fact that she sat with this ailing passenger for most of that transoceanic flight).

The article didn't mention what airline. We were flying Singapore Airlines. Service does make a difference.

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I usually fly with Singapore Airlines. The service is always exceptional. One time (out of about a dozen trips) the flight was cancelled due to engine issues. After explaining I had a conference to attend and the next flight would mean missing one out of three days, they booked me an United ticket and offered me some points as an apology for the "inferior service". It was.

I've had delta do the same for me (would have been stuck waiting overnight for another delta flight). Must just be about making the urgency clear.

IIRC, in the US, airlines are required by law to book you on the next available flight on any airline. Of course, they prefer to keep you on their own planes, and it is probably impractical to move every single passenger, anyway, so you do have to ask.

In the EU there are similar laws. Compensations start as soon as a plane is delayed by more than two hours. My dad has gotten quite a substantial chunk of money back on a regular vacation ticket after it was delayed for a few hours.

You have to ask, but I have noticed in recent years that they're quite open about the fact that the program exists, with posters all over most airports.

On the flipside, I think there is a sort of loophole that some cheap EU airlines use, where if all the passengers board the plane, they can keep you delayed (and boarded) for a few hours with no compensation. I've been stuck outbound from Gatwick, sitting in the plane for 2.5 hours with no food and no compensation, due to illness causing shortage in the flight attendant staff. I believe they knew about the delay before they boarded us.

I'm confused by this. EU passenger rights http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights... also apply to planes that arrive late. Hence, if they make you board the plane and wait, presumably you will also arrive late, and be entitled to a compensation.

I suppose the difference is that you're more likely to claim compensation whilst you've got nothing better to do than waiting to get on a plane in a terminal full of posters telling you to claim that compensation than once you've actually made it to wherever you're going.

After what amount of delay does this kick in though, or is it any canceled flight?

Weather delays must not count. I've had a mechanical failure turn into a weather delay. We get a free hotel room the first night of the delay, but slept in the airport the rest of the delay because it was "due to weather."

That's correct. I believe any nature related event falls into a category that conditions of carriage call an "Act of God".

I'm not sure what the conditions are, but the airlines are required to do that by law under certain circumstances. Maybe someone more knowledgable could chime in?

For flights to/from EU member countries, Regulation 261/2004 is applicable. I guess Rule 240 would be the US equivalent.

It can be tricky to get the airline to comply when they deny responsibility. So there are intermediary agencies that do the claim paperwork (and take the legal actions if necessary), taking a small percentage of the reward only if successful.

With the help of an intermediary, I successfully invoked Regulation 261/2004 against KLM after a flight was cancelled due to mechanical failure. The correct reward was ultimately transferred approximately one year after the original flight.

https://www.airhelp.com/en/know-your-rights

I got €400 compensation from Ukraine International Airways under the EU regulations after simply sending them a letter requesting it, after a 30 hour delay.

In the US, before deregulation FAA Rule 240 [1] covered this scenario. Now the specifics between airlines, but the place to look is the 'Conditions of Carriage' contract that each airline is required to abide by.

This Consumerist article [2] is out of date (2007), but it covers every airline's contract and I believe it remains mostly correct.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_240 [2] https://consumerist.com/2007/04/06/dont-fly-without-a-copy-o...

> The attendants were more than helpful

Probably worth noting two things here:

1.) In the United States disobeying any of flight crew (including flight attendants) is a federal crime.

2.) The pilot-in-command has the ultimate authority on the flight. If it is a life and death situation and you're getting static from someone, escalate to the PIC. You won't make any friends, but you may save a life.

> The article didn't mention what airline. We were flying Singapore Airlines. Service does make a difference.

The article mentioned Delta's risk management folks further down. No worries though; I was wondering the same until I came across the conclusion.

Singapore Airlines is noted for having close to the best service standards available. I bet that is what is reflected in her experience.

Yup but they are fairly pricey these days.

Singapore is easily the best airline I have ever flown on. Outstanding service.

My dad, a physician had to catheterize a passenger on an air new Zealand flight, and they offered him a free business class upgrade on his next flight. He found the crew helpful and was impressed they had a foley catheter onboard.

AirNZ perhaps not the best airline out there, but the best airline I've personally been on.

There's mention of Delta in the article.

Ah, Delta. I flew Delta, once (in the 80s). On the return flight, the flight was "delayed" till the next morning, and despite being a frequent traveller, they basically told me to go away and come back.

Needless to say, I swore to never fly Delta again after that. As an aside, I had a lot of good experiences whenever I flew Southwest.

I'll trade you my own anecdotal experience: Delta is by far the most professional and comfortable airline I've flown with.

The difference in quality when comparing Delta to other airlines is stark enough to me that I will book with them, even if the flight is slightly more expensive or less convenient.

All airlines suck, because they don't bother trying to avoid turning their problems into your problems good and hard.

I've generally had better experiences with Southwest than other domestic airlines, and that includes spending the night in an airport because Southwest canceled my flight due to "snow" when nary a flake was seen at the destination.

Delta, I don't even know why they bother publishing a schedule. But I'm sure our relative experiences are completely dependent on specific airports and time of day.

(I have flown Singapore once and the actual flight service was fantastic. But I'm not going to drop my guard over one uneventful data point, and even they haven't pushed back against the molesters)

Did you have the same bad experiences with major European or Asian carriers? In my experience those are far superior.

I don't have enough experiences. I should have qualified my lead-in statement as "domestic airlines".

After taking the Singapore flight, I did joke about flying across the US via Asia just for the better service. But (thankfully) I still have no idea how they handle problems.

I want to believe that there are still businesses that believe in customer service and doing the right thing, and not just for customers who have paid an out-of-touch price. But part of me thinks it's just a matter of time until "market efficiency" gets to them as well.

I'm not sure where the market efficiency will lead us in this case. I personally am happy to pay ~20% more to fly with a non-US carrier. However, they are making that really hard. First off availability is an issue. How many different fights leave from SFO to Tokyo Haneda (I don't like Narita) on a Friday morning? Then you have these alliances where you book one airline and it gets swapped out for a different carrier. I've in the past booked a particular flight because it was operated by Air Canada and they switched it to United(?). We were flying via Canada to avoid this and still it happened. The market is not as perfect as buying soda off a shelf. I believe that if it was ahs foreign carriers were showed domestically US carriers might be in big trouble. But maybe I underestimate how much price matters to most people.

Sorry - the molesters? Not a word one customarily sees associated with air travel. Will you elaborate?

Edit: And this is what I get for checking HN before I've had my first cup of coffee. Of course you refer to TSA.

I guess you're only comparing to American airlines. That's a pretty low baseline

I fly Delta all the time (including internationally). I hear this anecdote that the US airlines are so much worse, so I have to ask. How are foreign airlines that much better?

My delta flights are almost always on time and are usually a little early. The only big delays I've experienced are because of weather, which all airlines experience. The international meals are fine, as in, I wouldnt pay any more money to get a better meal.

My experience is that US domestic flights are terrible, but US international flights are much better. Not as good as non-US carriers, but pretty good overall.

Good service is not just about being on time. If thats the only thing you care for, you have low expectations.

As another anecdote, I went from seldom flights to fairly regular, and the only US airline that has not made me feel like garbage is Delta. I don't particularly care about arriving "on time" except in extreme circumstances. I care about being comfortable and treated well. And while Delta like every other airline does its share of shoving people into uncomfortable seats for long periods of time with little sustenance, they have by far made that more tolerable than any other US airline I've tried. To the point I almost always book on their website rather than any other option.

Can you give an example of some things that are better on other airlines? "good service" is a pretty vaugue phrase.

Tons of stuff. Food on the plane, facilities in the lounges, free newspapers and magazines, choice of entertainment, friendliness and helpfulness of the staff, choice of drinks, quality of the seats, space in between the seats, quality of pillows (business class), flexibility in terms of carry-on luggage, clear information on website, useful website for reservations and what not, reasonable price, and so on, and so on.

Like I said, delta food is fine on international flights (maybe I'm easy to please). Whenever I use an airline lounge, I just envision it's a pretty lame way to make up for the fact that you aren't flying direct.

Quality of the seats for delta is good for comfort+, which is in the same price range as regular economy for 'nice airlines'.

Choice of entertainment has been the in-flight system loaded with a bunch of new and popular movies for free, which is good enough for me.

Price is always in competition for the cheapest. There is a reason the airline is so large...

Not sure what you mean about flexibility of carry-on...

On Emirates A380s there's a bar, with a bartender. How about that?

Kinda cool for business class folks. But if your flying business class on almost any international flight you can press a button at any time to get whatever drink mixed up for you.

KLM,

They've treated me with respect. They've changed flights for me to have a quicker flight. For the most part.. they've been a heck of a lot better than Delta. I liked NWA, not Delta.

Would you pay less money to get a better meal? Because for example I've found that Emirates is cheaper and has better service and food than Delta, or really any of the major US airlines.

To add some data to this discussion, in 2015 FiveThirtyEight found that Delta flights typically took 4 minutes less compared to other airlines, whereas Southwest flights typically took 1 minute more. This takes delays and cancellations into account.

You can see the analysis at http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/flights/. The explanation, linked to at the top of that page, is at http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-we-found-the-fastest....

Do you fly internationally at all? Because almost all US airlines pale in comparison to the top carriers like Singapore, ANA, Emirates, etc.

Almost all airlines pale in comparison to Asian budget carriers. I've flown (from best service to worst): Scoot, ANA, and United recently (all on 787-9s).

One of the Scoot flights had some sort of medical emergency. Who knows what happened, but from what I could tell the guy lived. The closest we got to a medical emergency on the United flights was the food.

That being said. United provides a better service than Delta and the worst being Lufthansa.

Not in my experience.

I have flown Delta several times in international flights. Business class. Their service was always piss poor compared to ANA, Lufthansa or even Air France. United was certainly better than Delta while still inferior to the others I mentioned. Delta ranks as the very last airline I would choose.

Among domestic American airlines though we don't have much better choice.

It's all relative.

> Leftouthansa

Just pray to god that something doesn't go wrong with the flight. If it does.. it's your fault.

Datum point:

With Air France, the breakpoint is making Gold Status in Flying Blue (their frequent flyer scheme). Irregular traveller or Silver or below? If there's a problem with your journey, you own it. Gold and above? If you encounter a hiccup, they own it, and if you show the folks in the business lounge your card they'll go out of their way to fix things for you.

(I was once flying economy on a Delta seat paid for by someone else, and the Delta flight was late enough coming in that I was going to miss my onward connection. But I had Gold Status to fall back on: AF picked up the ball, bumped me a class, and re-routed me on one of their own flights so that I got to my destination, a bit later than planned but the same day, rather than being dumped in Detroit overnight.)

I'm British, a KLM/Air France frequent flyer, and visit the US a lot (so I end up on a lot of Delta code-shares -- flights booked via KLM/AF but operated by Delta).

Delta are the best of the "big three" US carriers in terms of customer service, and considerably better than American or United. On their intercontinental services they <em>try</em> to measure up to their non-US carrier alliance partners. Nevertheless, they're in third place relative to KLM or Air France as far as the passenger experience goes.

Relevant bit: I was on an AF trans-Atlantic flight a couple of years ago when a passenger a couple of rows behind me became unwell, and the passenger at the other side of my center aisle turned out to be a doctor on her way to a conference. Rubbernecking discreetly, I observed the cabin crew prioritizing the sick passenger's wellbeing and fetching the doctor the emergency kit and all the support she needed. Anecdata is not data and all that, but what I saw was what you'd hope to see in such a situation, not the fiasco described in the OP.

Change that to 3 years ago in LGA and you'd have the same situation. Delta is pretty crap.

This thread rapidly devolves in to people name-checking favourite airlines.

I will have flown ~100 sectors by the end of this year, to ~45 airports, about 2/3rds long-haul, and all but a handful in J or F. It's not an especially unusual year.

Service varies much more on flights with any one carrier much more than it varies between carriers. Seats vary depending on plane deployed by carrier as much as they vary between airlines. About the only constant is the amenity kits, food, and crew uniforms.

The best service I've had this year was on China Airlines (an ROC carrier, not a PRC carrier), and the worst by far was Asiana (out of South Korea). I have no trouble believing next year I'd have the complete opposite experience.

Service in any industry can be such a variable. I've sat in a restaurant and had outstanding service while watching the couple next to me get terrible service from the same server, culminating in that server accidentally crushing the reading glasses of one of the other diners. I got lucky, they didn't.

In short, in my experience: when booking flights, it's generally worth just ignoring any claims of service excellence or otherwise, and looking at the food and seats you'll get on the specific airplane you'll be flying on. I'd take the Vietnam Airlines 787 Dreamliner with the Zodiac Cirrus seats any day over a Singapore Airlines A330 with the 7811 seats, and if I was flying in Y, I'd be basing my decision purely on a combination of seat dimensions and how new the airframe was.

I'm under the impression that all US airlines are terrible. Really bad service and everything feels low quality. And they make you pay for everything.

It does mention the airline: Delta.

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