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Comment by throwaway26960 | Hacker News Reader

I recently started waking up at 4 a.m and go to bed at 8-9pm. It has done wonders for my life. I realized I was confusing my personal task list with my work task list - the two should not be confused. I complete all my personal tasks in the morning, such as, studying a new language, practicing a musical instrument, learning to draw, and a couple other skills I want to learn and improve. Then when I'm worn out and it's time for work, I'm greeted with a mile high todo list that never ends, but I feel satisfied knowing that at least I accomplished my goals for the day, which is all that matters. The mile high work task list will be there tomorrow... it'll always be there. It has allowed me to put myself first.

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Some years ago I started my day at 4 a.m. to exercise. While it worked, this kept me from having any social life outside from talking to coworkers. Getting a drink with friends in the afternoon is impossible if you want to keep this schedule, so I stopped. Being productive isn't everything in life. I'm only 30 but I doubt I will ever look back wishing I worked harder alone in my room instead of being with my friends.

> Being productive isn't everything in life. I'm only 30 but I doubt I will ever look back wishing I worked harder alone in my room instead of being with my friends.

I'm the opposite. At almost 30 I looked over a decade that has been awesome - friends, travel, girls etc - and decided to cut it all out as I create a software company. It's now 12 hours, 7 days a week, with a once-a-week break to meet a mate for lunch (and, eh, an occasional browse of HN).

I figured if I could amplify future moments (more money, more freedom, more opportunity to meet people) by deferring enjoyment now it's totally worth the trade-off and that if I did not start I would look back in a year wishing I was working alone in my room.

Moments with friends are great, and the memories are the fumes that keep me going when I might otherwise feel lonely or overwhelmed, yet swapping a year of after-work beers and hangovers for a shot at financial independence and self determination is worth it. Totally worth it.

Plus any good friends will be there a year from now, and if the hustle pays off, those future moments will be much more enjoyable than any fun I might be missing out on.

> Plus any good friends will be there a year from now, and if the hustle pays off

I like how you've implied at least the hustle is temporary. Too often people look at work vs life, as something that either (a) must be in balance at all times or (b) must sacrifice one for the other ad infinitum.

> Plus any good friends will be there a year from now

It's been 17 months since I made a similar decision. I'm not entirely sure if my friends will be there when I come out the other side. They think I "hate" them because I've decided to put work before life.

While I don't like the phrasing "work before life", I can sympathize with friends not understanding. I experienced the same thing when I began really focusing on my career.

In the end, I decided those friends were trapped in their own perceptions of what our relationship was supposed to look like. The true friends were the ones who simply said, "yeah, I noticed you buckling down. You do you; I'll see you next month"

Well getting drunk with friends in the afternoon doesn't seem like it's the answer to life either. I'm 31 and wake up at 5am during the week. Get to the gym before getting into the office at 7:30. Definitely have enough time to get drinks with friends here or there. I'm not staying out all night partying by any means, but there is certainly a way to make it work.

“Looking back over a life of hard work … my only regret is that I didn’t work even harder.” - H. L. Mencken

Sorry, I don't mean to troll, I just dislike the strawman argument of "[being productive/working/etc] isn't everything in life."

> Well getting drunk with friends in the afternoon doesn't seem like it's the answer to life either.

Wow, the GP didn't say anything about getting drunk, so you managed to turn his comment into "hanging out with friends isn't the answer to life either". I beg to differ, it's a big part of the answer.

You guys are going to be really surprised by this, but I swear it's true: the answer to life is different for each person

> the answer to life is different for each person

Robelt Waldinger seems to (partially) disagree:

https://www.ted.com/talks/robert_waldinger_what_makes_a_good...

Summary: The secret to happiness is good relationships with other people, and the bane to happiness is loneliness. This agrees with my own observations as well.

Deep Thought told me it was 42.

Watson told me it was 420. Must mean it's a 10x AI ;)

4:20 ;)

> Top 5 Regrets of the Dying: (2) I wish I hadn’t worked so hard. (4) I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends.

I suppose that people on their death bed are pretty much biased, hardly less than average population. Human memory is quite imperfect and selective.

Inevitably, some day, you will empathize.

Definitely! I have hard time understanding my future self, and my future self may have hard time understanding me as of now. People change, and what feels important at medium term (a few years) also changes. There's hardly a single right answer good for all ages.

> “Looking back over a life of hard work … my only regret is that I didn’t work even harder.” - H. L. Mencken

I won't bother looking up quotes but you are going to find and endless list of quotes similar to ...

“Looking back over a life of hard work … my only regret is that I didn’t spend more time with friends and family.”

... as well.

No need to do it 7 days a week. You wake up at 4 few days a week and sleep longer when u had drinks a day before. Maybe my social life really sucks but I don't really have more lets go for a drink invites than once a week.

Personally, changing my sleep schedule day to day almost never works. I usually end up going to bed and waking up about the same time regardless. Once I start waking up at 4am, I will always end up waking up at 4am.

I find I am much happier and better rested when I keep roughly the same sleep schedule every day of the week.

While it surely sounds like a perfectly valid choice for you, it's worth to mention that another option is to actually get friends who have (or convert them into) a more healthy or otherwise desirable lifestyle as yourself. Then you can be with your friends at almost any time you want.

Where have to live (for work), there is nobody I'd want to hang out with, more than I want to do what I like after work, the decision is easier in such cases...

I’ve tried something similar for a while. On the plus side the day seems to last longer because you get a lot of productive work early in the morning when everyone is asleep. On the other hand it seriously fucked up my social life. When everyone is out having a drink or whatnot you’re heading home to get some sleep. The only way I could make it work is to sleep during midday so I can stay up a bit longer in the evening. But even that doesn’t seem to work that good because by 11pm you’re already dead meat. Nowadays I only use it in urgent situations when I have to get a lot of work done and never for more than two months.

If I did that, I would not perform anywhere near the requirements at work.

"Then when I'm worn out and it's time for work" "I feel satisfied knowing that at least I accomplished my goals for the day, which is all that matters."

So, you're basically selling your least productive time and you're saying this is OK. You must be one of those folks who detest their job to do that. Please change your job. First, this may give you an opportunity to do something more enjoyable and leave what you currently do vacant for someone else who'll enjoy it more. Second, if you do your paid job well enough despite being "worn out", then you're not using your full potential, which is a pity. Do yourself and others a favor.

> So, you're basically selling your least productive time and you're saying this is OK

I don't see what the problem is here, unless he signed a contract that said he'd give his best hours to the employer.

> Second, if you do your paid job well enough despite being "worn out", then you're not using your full potential, which is a pity.

No one hires you to "use your full potential" - they hire you to do your job. What would be the problem if Albert Einstein were to teach jnr high school[1] science and doodling away on his personal theoretical physics at 4AM?

I see no ethical quagmire of putting ones' interest before the employers while fulfilling the prescribed duties, especially when considering the power balance and the fact that the other party in this relationship is usually a soulless legal construct that puts itself (and shareholders) before any employee.

1. or a Swedish patent office

"No one hires you to «use your full potential» - they hire you to do your job. What would be the problem if Albert Einstein were to teach jnr high school science and doodling away on his personal theoretical physics at 4AM?"

I wasn't caring about the employer on that particular statement, it was about living one's full potential in general. And for Einstein parable, in practice what you do often gets on your mind before something else, it's basically the opposite of "out of sight out of mind".

"I see no ethical quagmire of putting ones' interest before the employers while fulfilling the prescribed duties, especially when considering the power balance and the fact that the other party in this relationship is usually a soulless legal construct that puts itself (and shareholders) before any employee."

You've laid out a battlefield here, a context of conflicting interests or a situation with opposing parties at least. My advice was to get away from that, because that is not worth anyone's involvement. Change jobs, do something you enjoy and care to get involved into.

He doesn't view his job as something that determines his potential nor his worth, nor is this something necessary for life enjoyment as long as the job is tolerable. The hobbies and other such things makes him inherently happy. Not only that, but these things are much more constant than a simple job.

A job is just a job, however. A lot of people don't really like working at all. If he works at a factory, he's not doing anyone a favor by doing an already good job better - there are limits to what folks can do in that situation. He is, however, doing them a favor by having a work/life balance that makes him happy because it helps make his attitude better.

I understand your view, I've been there. I'm just encouraging both throwaway26960 and you (or anyone else for that mater) to look for something better. It's possible to end up with something more than merely "tolerable", something worth spending more than just leftovers of your energy.

Me personally? Any job I get at this point will be just a job. I don't speak the native language well enough to work in a lot of fields and my prior experience isn't worth nearly as much. What I'm really looking at is basically service jobs - janitorial and other such things, perhaps CNA type of work. Maybe I'll get lucky and get a factory job or something. But at the end of the day, there is only so far effort beyond doing the job well (which I tend to want to do on my own accord) will get me in these types of fields. The main thing a job brings me is income, honestly. A job that "isn't too bad" or "I don't mind the work" where the people "aren't too bad" is good enough. Now, this is entirely of my own choosing, but a lot of folks are in similar situations with fewer life choices.

But I get great internal pleasure out of cooking a good meal, out of making a wonderful piece of artwork, learning new techniques. Continued language learning (I've had 2 years of class, 600+ hours) remains important regardless of work. Seeing more of the country and the world? Definitely important. So I'll put more effort into those sorts of things than a job.

"But I get great internal pleasure out of cooking a good meal, out of making a wonderful piece of artwork, learning new techniques. Continued language learning (I've had 2 years of class, 600+ hours) remains important regardless of work. Seeing more of the country and the world? Definitely important."

How about you looking for a job around a restaurant or something? A scullion is as affordable job as any and from there gettin' into a chef's aid or into a position to augment the local's design using your taste in artwork shouldn't be that of an unrealistic expectation to have. In the longer term maybe even putting your polyglot skill to good use for distinguished clients, help expanding the place overseas, etc. Won't you enjoy that more than having "a job that «isn't too bad»" plus doing something else that you enjoy only off-work?

Keep in mind that I'm not being negative, just have some realism with this stuff, because I do consider such things. I'm honestly easy to make happy with the category of "just a job". I can tweak retail into giving a happy feedback loop because I like to make things look nice (displays) and I like helping folks, for example. Still just a job, though.

The stark reality is that kitchen jobs tend to be bad jobs on average. I've done quite a few of them, including working for a chef in a position to learn quite a bit. Bad pay, unrealistic expectations both from customers and management, and a great deal of hard work. Cooking jobs can be more demanding, requiring long shifts. It is still possible to open a place at some point, if I've the capital and did pick up skills to do that. This is one that is truly just a job in most situations, oddly. Large scale cooking in a school was the favorite in this category.

Jobs in art are generally a luck game, as a lot of art school students find out. I look from time to time - it is not out of the question, but truly i'm a few years off. Most would require some continuing education. Which isn't out of the question either, as the move gave opportunities I didn't have in the States. I do sell artwork from time to time, however.

Heheh. I'm in Norway, and my primary language is English. It is both a blessing and a curse. It doesn't pave my way into a job, just helps give an edge over some other immigrants because most folks under 50 can speak english - the schools start teaching it at age 6. I can use it for some tourist jobs and as an unofficial tutor, but a school-level 'official' tutor requires more education.

He's using his full potential, just not on work he's selling to others. I don't see anything wrong with doing that, as long as the market value of what he is selling is able to support that practice. Work to live, not live to work.

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