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Comment by dcw303 | Hacker News Reader

I used to live in Melbourne and now live in Tokyo. I really enjoyed my time in Melbourne, but I don't see how the two can be seen as comparable in crime or public transport.

Tokyo's rail system is fantastic and cheap. I can get to basically anywhere within the city in a very short amount of time. I used to have trouble with train delays and cancellations in Melbourne, and the timetable was more a rough estimate than anything that could be counted on. Don't know if it's changed that much since I left ten years ago.

And to me, safety at night is quite different. I feel safe going out here; whether it was true or not I can not say the same about my time in Melbourne.

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I imagine there's a certain level of crime/transport where there's almost no distinction between the two. The truth is Melbourne is a safe modern western city, which is to say practically 0 or min() as far as cities go.

I've only moved to Melbourne 2 years ago.

I understand the transport thing compared to Tokyo, but again, I imagine there a level where the scale tops out. Melbournians love to bitch about their transport, and the train capacity isn't keeping up with the growth in the burbs, but live within the inside of the tram network and you're basically set and timetable-less. Plus we do have the free tram zone and all night transport now.

Of course, I tell people there are two Melbournes. Zone 1: transport everywhere, compact walking city. Zone 2: suburban sprawl, connected by single train lines into the city and free ways.

Live in Zone 1 and you generally don't go to Zone 2. Live in Zone 2, and thank god you don't have a Sydney commute our house prices :p

I suppose you are right. I'll concede that they both have public transport systems that get you to where you need to go, and the extra efficiency in the Tokyo system tops out the scale they are using to measure.

But it is interesting that Tokyo's train system has to be efficient, to support the amount of passengers that go through it. Shinagawa station after a 15 minute delay on the Yamanote line in rush hour is wall-to-wall people, whereas the same in Melbourne is just a bunch of grumpy commuters stuck at Flinders St :)

I'm not sure I agree about the crime or at least it doesn't match my experience

I think part of the issue might be what crime brings up in your mind.

AFAICT in pretty much any "western" city (Paris, London, Brussels, Hamburg, NYC, LA, SF) the odds of having something stolen are extremely high. In SF if you leave something visible in your car overnight my experience is the odds are greater than 1 in 2 that the next morning you'll find your car window has been bashed in and the item/items stolen. In Paris if you look away from your purse stuff will be stolen. In Brussels if you sit at a bench and put your bag under the bench someone will reach under from the other side and steal your bag.

So far in Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto, Singapore that doesn't seem to be the case.

So while the odds of me getting hurt in one city vs another might be low the odds of me experiencing theft seem much higher in some of those top cities than others.

I'd be curious to know how Australia's and Canada's cities do along that dimension. Can you leave your laptop at a Starbucks unattended for an 10-60 mins and not have it stolen?

My completely subjective experience is that Vancouver 'feels' a lot safer than SF but that's only based on living in Vancouver and visiting SF (which has made me not really want to live there).

I don't own a car but my building has outdoor parking and break-ins appear to be unusual either there or out on the street. I don't think it would be particularly wise to leave a laptop unattended in Starbucks but I'd also be somewhat surprised if one was stolen if left whilst going to the washroom.

In 13 years living in Vancouver I've never had anything stolen. I don't hear about it very often either (can't recall the last time I heard a friend have anything stolen). I also have not heard of anyone I know being mugged here.

Your SF example is absurd. Half the cars with stuff in them at night are not broken into. My experience in Bernal Heights is not like you describe. I agree about Tokyo. On the other hand, here in Maui, where I live now, I had a pair of flip-flops stolen during a 20 minute beach walk.

Maybe Bernal Heights is different but you walk down 18th next to Dolores park and often see the piles of glass every 3-4 parking spots. Same on Folsom in SOMA. Same on 11th. Same on Franklin. The same is also bad in LA but SF seems worse.

But hey, you don't have to take my word for it

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/san-fran...

Melbourne does have the late-night drunk problem that all anglo cities do, but it doesn't have to employ people in white gloves to push you into those trains that do arrive... :)

In any case, yes, the public transport system has become worse in the last ten years - it doesn't have the capacity for the growing population, and it's of the terrible hub-and-spoke style anyway. Sucks if you're going crosstown.

The wife and I fight about that one.

I'm a defender of wheel and spoke. It results in a drawcard city centre.

Yeah it sucks to have to uber it from Fitzroy to Brunswick (le hipster horror!) when they're so close on the map, and she's always complaining that they need an outer ring transport line (and I agree that it would be awesome), but I view it on the same level as I do French people complaining about wine.

You move here from another city without public transport and you just walk out the front door laughing each day :p

I only visited Melbourne for several days, after living in Auckland for a year.

The only advantage I found is much more bars and cafes, so it feels more european (Wellington has that too).

Problem with Melbourne is it has grown too big. In comparison, Auckland population is 1 mil (and its struggling to scale).

Another advantage in Auckland is milder climate and lack of fauna that is trying to kill you.

Dichotomy I like to use is Wellington & Melbourne - bars and european culture. Sydney & Auckland - beaches and surf culture.

Tech scene in Auckland is not very impressive though. There is one consultancy (I think its called Movio) that focus on functional programming and Xero that has MS stack, though does well on frontend.

I can vouch for that. I've seen people riding bikes around Tokyo, alone, at 4 in the morning. It really does feel like an incredibly safe city.

I can't imagine living in a city where this is not the norm

Would you feel safe in Tokyo if it were full of Australians?

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