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Comment by davidiach | Hacker News Reader

I would encourage people to consider buying business laptops. In my experience many developers don't even consider business laptops and only buy consumer devices.

Business laptops have the following advantages over consumer laptops: - they're much more reliable - better support - a lot fewer problems with drivers and other incompatibilities - they are designed for work, which means you will have fewer problems with things like virtualization - generally speaking, the keyboard and the track-pad will be better

And the good thing is that some of the disadvantages of business laptops like size and bulkiness have also disappeared. You can now find business ultra-books that look good and work well.

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I've never had any other notebook as a "business" one. I only bough used ones, as they are pretty expensive new, but sometimes you get one still in warranty. And that's the best thing there is about business laptops. Your laptop broke? Next day there's UPS guy picking it up, and the day after you have it repaired/changed. No need to deal with a classic warranty, taking it anywhere, etc...

Oh, and the ease of maintenance. To open it, you get one screw on Dell Latitude, maybe two on Lenovo/IBM ThinkPad. 10+ on acers/asuses and whatnot. Not to mention you can't even open some of those. And with the NBD warranty comes that they will just send you parts you request and can replace yourself, without taking the notebook from you.

The build quality is also somewhere else. I would never a buy a "consumer" laptop, nor I would recommend anyone to buy them. I'm convinced they are intentionally designed like crap.

I owned a thinkpad and I was not impressed with its repairability. It was a T61. You can get at the RAM and HD easily enough, but the rest is not made to come apart easily. Lots of taped bits and subtly different fasteners: I think I counted about 65 screws of 8 or so sizes when I disassembled it to replace the motherboard.

All of the thinkpads from that T61 on have seemed like filmsy crap. They look sturdy, but the "metal hinges" are just covers over regular hinges, and there are lots of unsupported plastic bits that are squishy. Try pushing on the bezel at the bottom of your screen. Squish. I also hated the bit of wavy plastic with rattly buttons they put above the keyboard, which just screamed low-quality. My friend's 240 had the same issues. It seems like the thinkpad line is the same as everything else now, they just happen to have chunky industrial styling.

Ah, good to know. I only had T42 from the ThinkPad line, still IBM.

Mhmm. I had a T40 and it was awesome. I wish they still made them like that.

I'm not sure if it's still the case, but a few years ago a good reason to buy from Dell's business line was that they came with a completely unmodified copy of Windows - no crapware, no "helpful" add-ons, not even a Dell specific desktop background. That was lovely.

I am not sure XPS is a business laptop. For enterprise there is Latitude line, with more ports and higher price tag.

But I am not sure the price is worth it. XPS is very good.

http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/84/campaigns/xps-vs-latitude...

The Dell Latitude 13 (7370) is the business version of the XPS 13 [1] [2], although for some strange reason Dell decided to swap the Core i5 and i7 processors in the XPS for Core M5 or M7 CPUs.

[1] http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/latitude-13-7370-laptop/pd

[2] http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/6/10720212/dell-latitude-13-w...

If I had to guess, it's because they're betting that for business users buying an ultrabook-style laptop, the battery life you gain with the M-series is more advantageous than the extra processing power.

In two previous jobs I had Latitude notebooks. Both were pretty old at the time I was using them, so the battery was pretty much unusable. Besides that, they were working very well. Reliability-wise, these things are totally worth the price.

Latest Dell's Precisions are just the same XPS 15 laptops with pro graphical card.

Seconded. Using a ~ 10-year-old Precision M2400 (Latitude E6400 with a Quadro FX370 GPU) and it's still going strong.

Of course, I do have my desktop for 'actual' computing. But I rarely feel the laptop is low on poke.

^This! I just bought a Dell Precision M6400 for £300 for development work on site and stuck a 1TB SSD in it... flies along with Windows 8.

Slight issues on battery but I use it powered so for an 8 year old laptop I am not complaining.

I have a T530 at the moment and I'm really happy with it. I bought it with a quite high end config (but not the most possible) ~ 3 years ago and it is still competitive to most new high end laptops; of course it is bulkier and heavier, that's the main drawback. Other than that, the only thing that could be better for me would be the FHD screen, which is not bad but not perfect either - a previous Lenovo with only a lower end HD screen felt paradoxically better on some aspects, like the contrast, even if its colors were also less accurate. And I would not be against extra autonomy, of course, but it is already correct with a big 9 cells battery.

I've started to look at current models to see if I could replace it and for now it seems to be very difficult. Of course they all tend to be smaller and lighter and with more autonomy and a CPU that can be faster, at least for short period of times, but current models also seems to be plagued by either some various quality or design pb (like the XPS 15 or the Surface Book), or have some specs that I don't like (glossy screen, bad keyboard, extremely off-centered touchpad, ...) or even directly disqualify them (RAM < 16G -- I already have 16G on my 3 years old laptop, why would I buy a new one with less RAM?)

I might consider an MBP, despite the glossy screen. It seems to have less quality / design issues than even very high end PCs. And as a bonus the screen ratio is slightly less stupid.

Have you looked at the T460p? Quad-core Skylake, Nvidia GPU, 32 GB RAM, M.2 (unofficial in WWAN slot) + 2.5" drive, FHD IPS display without PWM flickering, 6-cell removable battery.

I'd argue that the Macbook Pro has the right balance between a consumer and business device

Don't you have to take them to an Apple store and stand in line to get it looked at if it's broken?

Whereas with a Dell it magically fixes itself, or you solder it yourself?

Dell has options. Apple has "option".

When the logic board in my current model MBP failed, I had to leave it with them for 6 days. When the graphics card had an issue in my previous MBP died, 4 days.

With a Dell, you can at least choose to pay for NBD repair. UPS guy shows up, it's repaired and back in your hands within 48 hours. And that's if they don't have a service contractor in your area that will come to your home/office.

Yes, you pay for it. But at least it's an option.

There are lots of shops that, for a fee, will give you a replacement Mac for the fixing period.

That said, moving my data and preferences and everything to the replacement box (and having to delete them afterwards, so nobody gets into them) is too much work. I'd rather have a spare laptop/desktop myself ready to go when the need arises.

As professional programmers, spending like $2-4K for 2 laptops every 4 years or so isn't that much to ask (which we can also reduce from taxes AND sell afterwards).

Heck, if we owned a taxi, we'd spend far more on its maintenance and operating expenses for the same period, and make far less.

You don't do regular disk clones as part of your backup process?!

As opposed to standing in line at another place?

With the right contract in place, support will come to your office to fix your laptop for you.

Usually it's not fixable in your office anyway, unless it's something very trivial.

Then, it becomes an issue of sending it off and waiting for it to come back. Hopefully they give you a temporary unit.

The same things (them coming it, sending it off) you can do with tons of Mac repair shops.

That said, whether Mac or PC, if you're doing business with your laptop, then get 2 laptops, or a laptop and some desktop machine.

Doesn't have to be equally expensive, but if you can't afford the downtime for repairs, replacements, etc, have something to fallback on.

It's might also come handy when some friend visits and doesn't have a laptop, etc.

I suspect for a similar amount of money you could find a local Apple-certified repair shop willing to do that for you.

A 3 year onsite warranty is ~$300. I doubt that over multiple incident you will be able to get a repair shop for that amount of money.

For small businesses, Apple's joint venture is great. Drop your Mac off and get a loaner. http://www.macworld.com/article/1158330/computers/joint-vent...

We use it. Super simple to get setup.

That's one of the reasons I've been recommending Apple computers to friends and family. It's nice having a store nearby they can make an appointment for service.

I used to also recommend Lenovo laptops with their onsite warranty plan, but after so many privacy missteps lately, I've stopped.

The privacy missteps were with Lenovo's consumer models. The ThinkPads only had the BIOS vulnerability.

Even so, the big problem for me is the lack of ethics at the company. I don't see the privacy of consumers as less valuable than the privacy of corporate users.

No you don't. They will overnight you a box. You pack it up, call for pickup, it then gets overnighted to Apple. They fix it that day then over night it back to you. All on their dime.

I was really really impressed with this.

I had my iMac serviced last year. I made an appointment online. After waiting 5 mins at the store, they checked me in and did some diagnostics. I was in and out in 15 mins

What's the last business laptop you have used ?

I'm coming to that conclusion too, at least in locations with easy access to Apple Stores. Moving back to the US so my next laptop will be a Mac; here in Indonesia the third party service centers are a joke (for most repairs they would have to place an order for replacement parts and that would take weeks, people resort to taking their laptop to Singapore and servicing them there).

Well I have the previous generation "Precision" M3800 which is supposed to be the top of the range "serious" line from Dell, and I can vouch for that generation's coil whine too (It's fully loaded including the Nvidia quadro card). That said, I cannot find any fault with the build quality as per this review. Mine is rock solid, nothing squeaks, nothing feels loose. It's rock solid. So other than minor coil whine I am very happy with this (older) machine. The only issue is the perennial problem under Linux with graphics card switching (optimus), and also scaling is terrible under all window managers in Linux, and under Windows, with the built in 4k screen versus the external monitor. Nobody gets this right except Apple.

I have some "coil whine" on my XPS 13 ultrabook only when the LED keyboard background light is on. Just another aspect, every laptop is different - maybe even within the exact same product line (I'm sure they don't use the exact same electronic components throughout).

On the overall thread topic: One reason I don't consider a Mac is that I can't (or don't want to) live without a touch screen any more. Yes it's "glare", but I can live with that more easily than not being able to just point at what I want with a finger, or scroll. I rarely use the touchpad.

The XPS 13 is a compromise: At home I'm equipped with 24 and 32 inch displays on a 16 GB RAM PC with SSD, I wanted something as lightweight as possible to carry around. It's heavy enough already - I'm eagerly awaiting 500 gram 17 inch display foldable mobile computers...

Those are good points but XPS are solid laptops that satisfy almost all of those requirements. It would be helpful if you could point out how XPS 15 are specifically lacking compared to other business laptops.

At least half of the things explained in the "What I don't like" section of the post?

Have to agree - although I've switched to a Mac for personal development work (and caveat, my dev at work is only building a few reporting tools in Ruby), my Dell Latitude Ultrabook issued by them hands down beats the majority of other machines I've used. Enough performance, strong battery life, decent trackpad and keyboard, and very quiet. Expensive, but will probably be issued to people for years after I've gone.

I agree. I'm going to find somewhere and try Acer TravelMate P648 as a replacement for my current Dell Latitude. Review http://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-TravelMate-P648-M-757N-Not... That's a new commercial laptop built for the work.

As I mentioned elsewhere I'd suggest comparing any 'business' (or 'workstation') laptop with an Alienware equivalent. I found that very often you're paying premium prices for CAD certified graphics cards and other drivers, when if you're not doing CAD it's generally wasted money.

The XPS series is exceptionally well-built. The XPS 15 has a "business" version ("Precision" something) but it's virtually identical.

This is why I take the "business laptop" thing with a grain of salt. Most "business laptops" these days are just the consumer laptop with a slightly component configuration: Xeon CPU, Quadro GPU, ECC RAM etc. I have a hard time buying that the build quality is particularly different. On the Assembly Line the workers or robots are just grabbing from a different supply bin.

XPS Precision is not a real Precision as it's used to be. It's the same XPS, but with pro graphics. Seems that was an Dell's experiment to name regular consumer laptops Precision and it doesn't seem to be a very successful experiment.

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