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Comment by neves | Hacker News Reader

I'm Brazilian. UFC is a big success here.

Sometimes we think that Humanity is evolving, but then we see that we are back to the gladiators era. This stuff makes me really sad:-(

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This is controlled, isolated, and voluntary violence. Why would it make you sad? I think it's fantastic.

I can't speak for the GP, but it's (apparent) popularity worries me. It is a brutal sport, with some of the dregs of society participating at the highest levels (here's an interview between two competitors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTzhVVIjLCE). I don't think I would have an issue with UFC etc. if the fighters could show a little class and some respect for each other. As it stands I think it supplies very bad role-models for teenage and 20 year old males it is surely popular with.

Those interviews are all for show and to build up hype, they don't actually dislike each other.

I'm not sure which is worse.

I think the worst part is that the fake hype works :/

> role-models

Are you kidding? It's a social activity, just like NFL in the days of yore, that people partake in.

Discussions about who's in the next big fight are what's on people's minds, not their criminal background. Sure, issues like domestic abuse and drug consumption will come up in conversations, but I think you're overestimating how many people look up to these guys and gals.

It's funny you mention class and respect considering that aside from promoting events you'll never see a higher level of sportsmanship outside the UFC. "In Octagon" behavior really doesn't even compare. (Watch Conor McGregor immediately after he lost to Diaz)

There is no reason why their behavior while promoting events should be excluded when considering their character. I don't believe I have ever seen another sportsman threaten to kill a competitor, or gloat about having inflicted a career-ending injury. Not to say that it doesn't happen, but it's more visible in UFC.

This was the first incident that came to mind from my own sports knowledge. There are certainly others:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Martin_(American_footb...

How do you feel about the gladiators fighting? They were slaves who risked life and limb for the entertainment of others. While UFC fighters get paid, others have pointed out here that it often isn't much.

The key word of atom-morgan's comment is "voluntary".

Correct. I have no problem with voluntary violence. To many in the sport becoming a great fighter is no different than aspirations in this community to start a great startup. The only difference is people on HN wouldn't do what they do at their salary. Value is relative.

There is an ethical nexus in play. The US military is "volunteer" but we all know how that plays out in reality.

You're obviously implying something here, make it explicit. Explain how the military is "voluntary". Explain "how it plays out in reality". Your implied arguments are a waste of space.

How many scion of old money families participate in UFC? In the US military? How many children of the nouveau upper middle class do?

How it plays out in reality is that the money involved looks better to people who have fewer choices. Of course, there will be exceptions. But in a meritocratic society, status is not as derived from violent activity as was true of societies with an honor culture.

I know for a fact that it's possible to develop a deep and abiding love of American football as a player. I presume the same is true of UFC. But the risks will dictate whether or not the money is worth it depending on a persons status.

Edit: nouveau

Does "voluntary" make it a great role model for teenagers?

No, other than teaching them the importance of voluntary associations. Why is it a default that these fighters have to be good role models for children?

"Just because I dunk a basketball doesn't mean I should raise your kids." -Charles Barkley

It's rare for anyone to die fighting in the UFC, that makes it at least somewhat different than gladiatorial combat. It is also an incredibly technical sport, it has come a long way from the brawls of its early years.

No one has died fighting in the UFC, although it has happened (only 4 times to date in the US) in other organizations[0]. I'm sure one day it will happen in the UFC and there will be a lot of hand-wringing, but the injury rate is comparable to any high-impact sport like boxing or football. The risk of head injury might even be less than boxing because there's no standing 8 count and there are more ways to win without the head being attacked. Referees are generally very well-trained and the overriding imperative is fighter safety. Not to whitewash or anything; it's a bloody and violent sport to be sure. But I think that it's much more civilized than non-fans tend to realize.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalities_in_mixed_martial_ar...

>Referees are generally very well-trained and the overriding imperative is fighter safety.

I don't know if I'd agree with either of these statements, as we saw this weekend.

First, UFC events seem inundated with horrible stoppages. Early stoppages are annoying, but at least they're safe. Late stoppages still abound, though. Lauzon vs Sanchez was a good example of this. But these guys were put on the card to smash, so the ref made sure the fans got their money worth. We got to watch Sanchez stumble around on his feet in a daze.

For the second, the referees seem to be most concerned about the entertainment of the fans, first and foremost. Forcing Cormier and Silva into a stand-up on multiple occasions Saturday night is an example here. The refs are more than happy to force people to go toe-to-toe.

I imagine UFC fighters will have bad brain damage when they get older so while "Voluntary" and "lots of money" are decent arguments...

Do these people know what they are getting themselves into and how does that compare to Porn?

Feel free to answer however... I'm genuinely curious.

It's quite sad, it seems to be on the same level as wwe or boxing.

Mark Coleman seems to be deteriorating really fast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFkw1YyipIM

Thanks for linking this video. I had no idea Coleman was in this shape. He's just 51.

Yea I know eh? And Randleman died earlier this year too :(.

Have you heard stories of Roger Mayweather wandering around and getting lost? Hes deteriorating really fast as well.

Compared to boxers the UFC guys experience much less brain related trauma because fights usually end after a single blow to the head instead of 10+.

If anything, it looks less dangerous than regular boxing, or an NFL wideout going over the middle and getting laid out by a strong safety.

Question: Why is UFC such a big deal when Vale Tudo has been around (in Brazil) since the what, 1920s?

I've done martial arts much of my adult life and have been doing BJJ for the past several. I always found this weird.

UFC is more than an art, it is a competition backed by an organization with opinionated rules and a huge marketing budget. It'd be like asking, "Why is Coca Cola such a big deal when we've had sweetened caffeinated drinks for centuries?"

That is such a strange question. Vale Tudo is synonymous with MMA. UFC is a brand of MMA events, products, etc. UFC is currently the most recognizable and successful MMA promotion in the world. I guess to answer your question, the UFC is a big deal because they were the first promotion to bring MMA to the global audience and have been 1000x more successful doing so than anyone else before their existence. This is little different than asking why the NBA is a big deal, why the NHL is a big deal, etc when basketball, hockey, etc existed for many years before those leagues formed.

Because marketing.. I say this jokingly but I mean it. The success of the UFC is because it was treated as a business, not as a sport.

Brasilian, too. This is very fallacious reasoning.

Humanity is evolving.. into freak athletes.

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