Hacker News Reader

Comment by Kristine1975 | Hacker News Reader

Kristine1975

It has been getting out of hand for quite a while now: https://www.reddit.com/r/GunsAreCool/comments/4qyfsx/here_ar...

  MASS SHOOTING CASUALTIES IN THE U.S. - JUNE 2016

    52 verified mass shootings
    104 people killed
    226 people wounded

  These people were victims strictly of mass shootings. Not included
  are victims of shootings where three or fewer people were shot. On
  average, 91 Americans are killed and more than 200 injured with guns
  every day.

View on HN

Yes, but this goes way beyond that. So, first we have the police shooting two people, now (during a protest against police violence triggered by those shootings) we have 11 police officers shot by snipers. It doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to see this spiral out of control into full scale riots.

I don't recall anything like the killings of those police officers happening at a demonstration, we're talking organized targeted response here.

> So, first we have the police shooting two people,

US police have shot and killed over 500 people this year.

So far 58 officers died "in the line of duty". 26 of those died by gunfire.

In 2015 130 officers died in line of duty, 39 of those died by gunfire. (I don't know how many of these were killed by other officers).

If you're referring the article that was linked on this page, that number is intentional gunfire. The accidental number was 2 (presumably the officer accidentally killing themselves or being accidentally killed by another officer).

This comment is a hostage to fortune as we currently have no information about the alleged shooters (which in itself is making me suspicious), but at this stage I'd say it was 50/50 that the shooters were white supremacists trying to escalate the situation.

I'm not aware of anyone since the Black Panthers trying armed politically organised retaliation against police violence. But I could be very wrong.

Edit: well, this turned out to be wrong.

False-flag conspiracy theory appears to be debunked by the latest releases from the Dallas police chief. Dialog from their hostage negotiations with the shooter (before they blew him up with a bomb disposal robot, btw...) points towards an individual who drunk a little too deeply from the more radical and violent BLM rhetoric.

> at this stage I'd say it was 50/50 that the shooters were white supremacists trying to escalate the situation.

One of them is apparently dead so I figure this will be known quite soon.

And I really wonder why you'd make that assumption on a 50/50 basis with 0 evidence, is there something specific that makes you write that?

> I'd say it was 50/50 that the shooters were white supremacists trying to escalate the situation

How can you possibly make a call like that?

Cynicism. Too much cynicism, it turns out. Mass shootings in the US are usually, but not always, white perpetrators.

Often white perps with mental problems, not white supremacists sowing discontent.

Note that "snipers" doesn't mean people with a sniper rifle like in the movies. Apparently one of the shooters walked around with an assault rifle, but nobody said/did/could do anything because Texas is an open carry state.

"Four Dallas Police officers and one Dallas Area Rapid Transit officer were killed by “snipers” perched atop “elevated positions,” officials said."

> Apparently one of the shooters walked around with an assault rifle

This man was accused as a suspect on twitter, but he turned his weapon into police and went into them lying to him saying they had evidence and witnesses. While, on social media, we had clear video of him walking the protest and hitting the deck when shots broke out.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/articl...

I know police made an early mistake.

Police initially suspected someone who was walking around with a rifle, but he turned himself in and was later released.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-36743033

Was one of the killers walking around with a rifle?

Couldn't the police admit only unarmed people to the Dallas event, and have a word with anyone who looked like a sniper in an elevated position?

If state law in Texas is like Georgia, then it's much harder to stifle the 2nd amendment in a public space at a public event. If it were a registered protest, maybe, or if the organizers of a private event asked people not to carry.

A lot of the argument for the 2nd amendment is that if you put people open carrying, the gov/police will show more restraint, allowing for 1st amendment practice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSwys0dm_EA

You can carry around assault weapons?

Yes, because "assault weapons" is a made up term that includes large numbers of perfectly legal semi-automatic firearms. The same rifle can have two different configurations, depending on cosmetic variations which do not affect its underlying capabilities, one of which is "scary" looking enough to trigger the "assault weapon" label, while the other appears to be an innocuous hunting or target-shooting rifle.

Well, US law has a legal definition, but I think people used the term before congress decided to make that up.

In this case, was it a large weapon? Did the "snipers" carry around their guns openly?

If by "US law" you mean "federal law," no it does not. It has a legal definition in some US states but they all differ[0] and in every case rely in part of cosmetic features of the weapon.

And I'm not sure what the physical size of a weapon has to do with anything.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon#Differing_state...

Yeah its the "bear arms" part.

"That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." - Thomas Jefferson

> On average, 91 Americans are killed and more than 200 injured with guns every day.

How many of these are suicides, accidents, or gang violence? I ask because you quoted one paragraph which starts by talking specifically about mass shootings, but then generalizes to a fact that is almost certainly 99%+ incidents that are always excluded (suicide, accidents, gang violence, etc).

Reply on news.ycombinator.com