Hacker News Reader

Comment by mysterypie | Hacker News Reader

The suicide is tragic. However, no one seems to have investigated the police beatings he alleges he received the day before he died: "They beat the shit out of me twice," he says.

Just look at the autopsy report under "BLUNT FORCE INJURIES" for all the bruises:

https://regmedia.co.uk/2016/07/07/ian_murdock.pdf#page=10

The autopsy reports alcohol and sedative drugs, and friends and family report that he was breaking up with his girlfriend, facing eviction, and other distressing things. Does that make it likely that he'd make false accusations against the police? I don't think so.

View on HN

From the article:

"Two days earlier, at 11.30pm on December 26, Murdock was arrested after drunkenly banging on a neighbor's front door with such force it was as if he were trying to break inside. He reportedly fought with cops when they showed up, and was ticketed for resisting arrest and assaulting an officer. He was taken to hospital after banging his head on the inside of the police car he was being held in.

Just a few hours later, at 2.40am on December 27, Murdock left the hospital and went back to the neighbor's home to bang on the door again."

I assumed the police beating was administered as he was drunk and resisting arrest.

or his injuries were self-inflicted from having a psychotic breakdown ?

Yeah i can't help but think he was having a bad time, went a bit deep in the bottle, and the cops, rather than picking him up and getting him home safely, curb stomped him, thus exasperating the situation.

People in such a binge/breakdown mental illness episode absolutely do misperceive interactions with others, imagining persecution when there is none. Or, blame their own self-harm on others. Or, continue raging against both people and objects in ways that endanger themself and others until nasty amounts of force are applied.

You have to trust the reactions of the friends/family who have witnessed decades of a person's behavior – if they're not concerned about injustice, it is unlikely strangers on distant discussion boards have more insight into what the deceased faced.

Resisting arrest and the other charges against him are pretty serious in the legal system in the US. I imagine the prospect of jail/probation and other consequences weighed down heavily on his mind; since he had already been in a pretty bad state with his breakup etc.

This is rather sad since it could definitely have been prevented. A network of close friends and family is absolutely necessary for people like Ian, who seemed to be of the solitary type (something I and I assume many others in this community can relate to). For such a person, problems with relationships can have deep emotional consequences...and this seems to have been a situation that spiraled out of control.

I don't know enough about it to comment on it myself, but I saw comments elsewhere that apparently bruises appearing post mortem are quite common and those people appeared to think that was the likely cause of the bruises indicated in the autopsy.

Found where I read those comments and it has also been updated: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4rlar5/official_repo...

You don't get abrasions post-mortem, however, and if it were post-mortem bruising, you'd expect it in parts of his body that were lower than others. Having bruises and abrasions on his front, back, sides and face is not a natural thing that happens after death. It's a thing that happens when you're roughed up - if you read the autopsy report there are a variety of injuries that you'd have to try pretty hard to inflict on yourself, but are absolutely consistent with being beaten and thrown to the ground, and then having someone dead-drop knee-first into your back.

Honestly, I understand him killing himself. In the same scenario, potentially facing 15-25 years in prison for a felony (being white would likely help keep him out of jail, but being a geek with aspergers would not), I would likely do the same, as in the US there is no life after prison.

This is interesting, actually - unsurprisingly, the US is the most punitive place on earth if you assault a cop, although I can't see how you could assault a cop in the US, given that they're armed to the teeth and usually in full armour, and usually sat in an armoured and armed vehicle.

http://www.hopesandfears.com/hopes/city/city_index/215849-ci...

> they're armed to the teeth and usually in full armour, and usually sat in an armoured and armed vehicle

This is absurd hyperbole.

Have you ever been to the US? Your use of British spellings suggests you are not from here.

I have lived in the US for decades. I have personally seen hundreds, perhaps thousands, of police officers in socioeconomic contexts ranging from high crime inner city ghettoes to wealthy suburbs. 99%+ were walking around in an ordinary uniform, not sitting in a vehicle (much less an "armoured and armed" tank), were not wearing any kind of armor (much less "full armour"), and were not "armed to the teeth" in any sense, unless you consider carrying a handgun to be "armed to the teeth."

Are you deliberately trying to mislead foreigners who haven't ever been here into thinking that the US is some sort of militarized police state, or merely repeating secondhand reports from far-leftist news sources that are politically motivated into making foreigners think that about the US?

I lived in Chicago for ten years. I know the US, I remember what it was like in the 80's and 90's, and I see it now and shake my head.

The US is becoming a militarised police state.

> I can't see how you could assault a cop in the US, given that they're armed to the teeth and usually in full armour, and usually sat in an armoured and armed vehicle.

Fortunately the militarization of the police has not gone that far yet, at least in NYC, the extent of armor the police wear usually stops at a bulletproof vest, and for the most part they only carry handguns. Armored vehicles are rarely used.

The lacerations are solely on the front, upper portion of his head. The police report said that he had been banging his head while in the police car, which can certainly explain those lacerations.

The abrasions are predominantly on the left side of the body. If you imagine that he started the suicide sitting on top of the (left, from the view of the door) railing, facing forward, and then he fell off the railing towards his left as he fell, you can explain most of the abrasions by the railing or the balusters scraping him hard as he fell, ending up (as he was found) in a prone position, head facing upstairs. The upper right back and right front shin abrasions are the hardest to fit in geometry, though.

Without more detailed models of the house geometry and the bruises/cuts/scrapes on the body, it's hard to make a better judgement, but the evidence as it stands doesn't refute the official police report.

>This is interesting, actually - unsurprisingly, the US is the most punitive place on earth if you assault a cop, although I can't see how you could assault a cop in the US, given that they're armed to the teeth and usually in full armour, and usually sat in an armoured and armed vehicle.

Ah, I see you've watched the Ferguson riot videos.

Using the same process, I have concluded cops in the UK always carry shields and wear helmets with full faceplates, and that the UK military patrols minority neighborhoods in full battle gear including automatic weapons.

I found the fact he was visible from the front door to be interesting. Most houses in SF do have awkward staircases in front of the door so I guess it's plausible... The door doesn't appear to have the greatest visibility inside http://imgur.com/vaSsAFx

Reply on news.ycombinator.com