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Comment by EugeneOZ | Hacker News Reader

It's funny to observe how people think that fasting or any other ancient rite will make their faith more valid. "If I'll eat this sandwich it will be huge sin and God will judge me".

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Not a muslim myself, but its pretty apparent you haven't the faintest clue about the reasons behind the fasting.

If you actually read even a little of the article, you will notice that there is no reference to "making one's faith more valid", but rather more practical values like self-discipline, self-control, patience etc.

I born in orthodox Russia, this branch still have tradition of fasting 40 days each year, so your "pretty apparent" is pretty funny. I know a lot of people who each year follow this fasting rite but never donate to poor, they don't even think about it.

1 visit to Orphanage will give lesson much more effective than this ancient spectacle. I know what I'm talking about.

But of course the real reason is "everyone I know is doing it so I must fit in".

Of course, imitation plays a part whenever you have some kind of group identity. However, there's a distinction between why the practice actually exists and why people partake in it. The question being answered is the former.

Actually the lesson of Ramadan is to make rich people (muslims) realize the hardship that poor people go through due to hunger, so that they feel inclined to donate and help the poor.

I am glad you said it. When meeting others who were born Muslim, they told me I was informed. I did not say this was the only reason, but they said I did not get it.

I wonder what I read. Haha.

Nah, it's not about that at all. Fasting is about learning to deal with hardship, and appreciating what less fortunate people have to go through every day of the year.

At the end of Ramadan, Muslims are encouraged to donate to charity. It becomes much easier after you've felt a bit of what it's like to be poor for a month.

Yeah, but not in other 11 months, lol. When charity is forced by tradition - it's not charity, it's just rite.

Does the money given help the poor? Yes? Then it's charity. Why it's given is irrelevant.

As for your other comment, there's nothing stopping a Muslim from donating to charity during the rest of the year. Also, there's another important act of giving called zakat which depends on your current assets - usually 2.5% every year.

Nothing stopping - yes, but I only talk about fasting, not about donating. And it's not only about muslims, it's about rites in any religion.

Well, if God tell you so, you shouldn't eat that sandwich. If you are familiar with chain of trust in computer security, Muslims have something similar for the Quran, there are hundred or thousands of peoples alive today who will give the names of their Quran teachers until your reach the Prophet, this will give you thousands of chains, with the exact Quran script, all people on this "chains" memories the Quran letter by letter. In that script God tell Muslim to fast as Christian an Jewish did before them.

God told me to never eat anything. Where is the distinction between mentally ill and religious?

You'll find that Ramadan is quite reasonable if you actually understood it.

Don't I?

Religion is more in the domain of cultural evolution than people speaking directly to god. Islam is a continuation of Christianity and Judaism and you can trace that back even further.

To a, presumably, educated person like yourself, yes, religion is likely more in the domain cultural evolution. Can the same be said for all? Many would claim to have a personal relationship with their deity(ies).

In my experience growing in a muslim country -- most moderates understand this and imply it without explicitly saying it. And most of the education and the scholarship happening in Islam focuses on the Madhab, fatwa, hadeeth, and interpretation. All of which is merely people using their best judgement to supplement and evolve religion.

Of course, fundamentalists -- as apparent from the name -- read things very literally and "speak" or "hear" directly from God.

I appreciate the civil discussion and insight.

What is prayer if not speaking directly to a deity?

I can only speak for moderate sunni islam -- a lot of it is meditation and not very different from how yoga is practiced in the west. People gathered together in a room doing repetitive movements and sounds. The only bit of talking to God is when people "ask" for things. And It's not as prevalent in islam to ask for things as it is I think in christianity.

As an atheist, and someone critical of religion and its practices elsewhere in this thread, your faith seems quite reasonable. The notion of "ignorance breeds fear" is at play somewhere here.

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