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Comment by Varcht | Hacker News Reader

At ~$100k, a 40-foot sailboat seems like a reasonably affordable option for housing in SF.

"It's a trap!"

There is nothing about a boat that saves money, ever. It's an incredibly rewarding hobby if you're into it, but not cheap!

"If it flies, floats, or fucks you should rent it" is the common advice passed around by jaded and wealthy divorced men that I know.

Also a quote by Dwayne Johnson in the show Ballers... though I think he added "drives" as well.

I wonder if this aphorism applies, if studied strictly on the basis of economics for homosexual prostitution.

I am in no position to dispute this, but I have a friend who has lived on a sailboat in the Bay Area for many years now, and for him it was a way to get out of the apartment-renting game much, much earlier than he ever could have afforded to buy a place on land.

If he had done the same thing in a saner real-estate market then maybe by now his sailboat habit would have cost him as much as a flat would have, only later. But in the SF Bay I'm pretty sure he never would have caught up, and this way he's the lord & master & captain of his own tiny domain.

You are only "lord and master of your own domain" to a limited extent if you're paying $700/month moorage... You've just exchanged high rent for an apartment for renting a moorage space. There are very few marinas organized on a condominium or coop share ownership model.

Berkeley marina is fairly affordable to live at: http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/Parks_Rec_Waterfront/Marina/Ber...

I know some people who do, and they enjoy it. Some of them even sail their homes, or take off to Hawaii for a few weeks in their home.

You'd need to multiply that by three to approach ANY apartment you'd have to yourself in SF.

$700/month is a very cheap rent. I'd like to know what utilities and maintenance for a reasonable boat would be.

Utilities are water, metered power, and pumpouts for sewage. Maintenance costs are low four digits each year, rising quickly if purchase price is over $100k.

Maintenance costs are low four digits each year? Yeah, until you need to haul a 60' boat out of the water and scrape + re-paint its hull, which will need to happen on a regular schedule for the life of the vessel.

My comment relates to any boat around 40ft in length or less. A 60ft boat's expenses will be an order of magnitude higher.

Still, $100k for a place you can live is a very nice deal. Let's say $100k in housing could be rented for $500 a month. That'd would make the boat cost you about $1200/month. That's still a very reasonable price for a property close to the beach.

Boat (N):

   1.) ...

   ...

   5). An odd shaped hole in the water you throw money into.

That's right. If you can pony up the cash, and maintain the boat (read: elbow grease) it's not a bad choice. But you have to love the boat, and the sea.

Do you have to love fixing engines while surrounded by bilge water?

Kind of, yes.

It is a sail boat that you want. Not much engine fixing.

Inboard maintenance in cramped quarters ankle-deep in oily bilge muck is not a joke. Any sailboat big enough to live aboard is going to have an engine of some sort. Outboards are probably the least bad if you can make that work and not drop it into the sea, but most have inboards which require some degree of maintenance.

BOAT = bring out another thousand.

Source: I owned a 25 foot sailboat.

From watching various youtube channels made by people sailing around the world, such as the excellent S/V Delos channel, I've learned that if you want to be a sailor you have to really enjoy boat maintenance. If you're one of those people who would fix crap on a boat and do small engine maintenance for fun in your spare time and even go down to the local machine shop and learn how to custom make parts just cause you liked it -- if hauling your boat out of the water to sand it and paint it while wearing protective gear makes you feel proud -- then sailing is definitely for you.

Well, maybe, though round-the-world sailors and daysailors are kinda apples & oranges. The hours-spent-having-a-blast to hours-of-maintenance ratio on something like a Hobie 16 beach catamaran is ridiculously high

Yep, it really depends. If you get something old and made of wood, you're probably signing up for a lot of maintenance or a heap. There are plenty of heaps at marinas if you go look. The alternative is to get a boat guy, which is also expensive. The other other alternative is to join a sailing club which collectively maintains the vessels. There are plenty in the Bay Area if you look :)

So what you're saying is, based on what he actually spends his time doing, "sailor" is basically a euphemism for "boat repairman"

More like being a boat mechanic is an integral part of the experience of owning a boat. Some people like working on cars, while most people take theirs to a mechanic. If you're the former kind of person then you're probably much more likely to have a satisfying boat ownership experience, especially if you buy a used/older boat.

Similar sentiment, but the old saying goes something like:

"The two best days of boat ownership are the day you buy it and the day you sell it."

You would need to bring out three thousands, per month, before you break even with rent in SF :).

Docking fees & maintenance are what get you.

A slip isn't much more than my association fees. Housing in SF is pretty high.

many major marinas in large cities prohibit 'liveaboard' type boats for exactly this reason.

Indeed! But there are workarounds...

saltwater is cancer for boats. basically a hole in the water you throw money into that will always be rapidly subject to accelerated entropy due to salt water.

There are a number of dock slip owners in San Francisco who have a boat parked there that they rent out as a living space. It's far from luxurious, but I've heard of rents as low as $100/month.

I paid more, but yeah...it can work out.

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