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Comment by ivl | Hacker News Reader

Really, this shouldn't come as a surprise. At this point, pre-loaded systems just aren't worth trusting. Better to remove them entirely and start from square one. It's a pain, but until consumers put more pressure on manufacturers, it'll continue being an issue. I'd honestly like to see MS force clean installs, limited only to driver's as an option, as this bloatware is just a huge security flaw, and something that lessens the machine.

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Consumers and the review industry need to put more emphasis on this stuff. A very quick look around:

Laptopmag rates best & worst[1], but only gives 5 points to "software". Asus sits in 3rd place, with 3/5 rating for software, with the comment:

> Many of Asus’ laptops ship with more than their fair share of bloatware, including Line, Netflix, Candy Crush Saga, Flipboard and TripAdvisor.[2]

PC Mag rates the top 10 of 2016[3], with the 1st being a chromebook and 2nd place going to an Acer despite one of its cons being "lots of bloatware".[4]

On one hand, it's not that hard to reinstall an OS from scratch (something I always do), so to say "don't buy this laptop" because of that is maybe a bit extreme, but on the other hand, most consumers don't do that.

[1] http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/laptop-brand-ratings [2] http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/asus-brand-rating#sthash.9... [3] http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2369981,00.asp [4] http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2498473,00.asp

Good luck reinstalling lenovo laptops from scratch... I mean, I always do a clean Arch install, but if you want windows youll probably have to buy a copy or have them ship you their bloated version

That is actually ONE positive feature of Windows 10.

Once it's activated it's stickiness to the CPU/Mobo means you can just re-install the dang thing on the same system.

Yeah you have to buy it, but well worth the expense in the long run if Windows is necessary for you.

It’s pretty amazing that Microsoft lets the OEMs tarnish the Windows brand with this shady business.

Indeed, but I do think they are aware of it since they do offer "Signature Edition" computers, which require manufacturers to not install additional software.

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signatur...

Well with Windows 8 and now 10, MS is tarnishing their brand, albeit it in different ways. The uncertainty over what MS does and inability to shut it off (apparently updates undo settings?) is why I still don't use W10. :\

I'm in the same boat, and just want to add that they encourage that feeling to stay away in me by doing the same in my win 8.1 install. I have to 'ignore this update' for the windows 10 update (kb 3035583 I think) every single time I 'check for updates'. Seriously?

There was a time when PC vendors had preinstalled applications — honest-to-goodness applications, not bloatware — as a competitive advantage. For Microsoft to forbid this would probably be called out as anticompetitive with regard to those applications, even though no one does that any more.

How do I remove the pre-loaded BIOS/UEFI and install a trustworthy one?

Using an OEM OS is the computing equivalent of "don't put that in your mouth; you don't know where it's been".

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