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Comment by pvg | Hacker News Reader

I wonder if this advice is informed by the author's experience in the UK. In the Northern California software/tech industry, 2 weeks notice is the standard courtesy. It's also, I've found, widely accepted that having someone who doesn't want to be there can be corrosive to team dynamics so both employer and employee have an interest in aiming for the minimum time needed for an orderly hand-off. That tends to be two weeks or less.

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So long as your relationship with the company is pleasant, the "proper" notice to give depends on the specifics of the position and could be longer than 2 weeks. It's polite to give enough time so that you can transition your responsibilities to whomever will be taking them over. In senior positions I've often given 4 weeks notice, but I know some people who commonly give 6 or more.

Continuing to be a productive part of the team during that period of time is simply a matter of professionalism. It's true that occasionally one party or the other is incapable of continuing to work together, but that's pretty rare in my experience.

Assuming the employer/employee relationship is healthy, I give the customary 2 weeks, but always allow for up to 4 additional weeks of off-site 1099 consulting and communication.

This can be especially helpful when transitioning a large codebase, or really any suitably complex project, where some of the undocumented "lore" isn't readily apparent to either party until after the formal transition effort is already well underway.

I don't think it's a matter of being able to work together. It's just better that everyone move on. Two weeks is standard and expected in Silicon Valley. Also keep in mind that the workforce there tends to be pretty mobile (there are a lot of startups, after all) so this essentially defaults to a standard protocol. Nobody really needs to be told how to quit other than perhaps the first time. I'm sure other locations and industries have different expectations and conventions.

I've had a few jobs where two weeks notice turned into two weeks paid vacation. It was standard practice as they were routinely paranoid about sabotage.

Yep, that happens as well. In fact in many US states, certainly in California, 2 weeks notice can also turn into collect-your-things-and-go. But this relatively rare, given normal a employer-employee relationship.

In any hire-at-will state, including California, you have the right to walk out at any time just as they have the right to let you go at any time.

2 weeks is just a typical professional courtesy. The employee handbook might state "we prefer two weeks notice", but you don't owe them that.

My day job wanted nine months. We compromised on four. Salaryman life, banzai.

For the record, in Japan the minimum notice period (for both sides) is 2 weeks by law. However, no company will fire you under such a short notice unless you do something egregious like punching your boss.

If you're leaving, most companies will expect at least a 1-month notice. Two months is common. Even if you're changing jobs that's not too long because the other company (if it's a Japanese company) will understand and actually expect it. On that 1~2 month period you're expected to hand over your tasks to a colleague.

If you're leaving for a reason other than changing to another company (like Patrick), then it's not uncommon to give a longer notice. For instance, many women still leave their jobs after marrying, or after getting pregnant, or when their husbands get transferred etc.

I've heard of key technical staff having a 3-month notice written out in their contract. Nine months is ridiculously long no matter what.

Wow. Where I am, the notice is 2-3 months and contractual so there is no negotiating it.

Personally, I would tell the person "Go ahead and go now, and we'll just continue to pay your salary to the end of the contract". If the person is really unhappy with the place, having them around bringing everyone down is going to cost a lot more than paying someone 2 months to not be there IMO.

Wow. Where I am, the notice is 2-3 months and contractual so there is no negotiating it.

How do you contract this sort of thing? If I wanted to quit and I had a contract like this, I would just stop coming to work, or I would come to work and do a bad job.

Getting fired probably reflects poorly on you when they call your former boss, though..

It's something similar in Sweden, though the contract goes both ways. They can't give less notice for firing you than you can for quitting, so it just damps the system somewhat.

It's pretty cultural. The contract is a two way street. Most people don't do what you describe because they wouldn't want the company doing it to them. People probably also worry about burning bridges.

Since it's a legal contract violating (by leaving) it could lead to lawsuits.

Similar in Ireland. Although 1 month notice is the figure. Usually the notice is specified in the contract. There is a legal minimum of 2 weeks (or more depending on how long the employment has lasted).

Although it's in the contract, you are always free to re-negotiate a contract, and if both sides agree, then you have a new contract

When I worked in Germany, I had to give _3 months_ notice. (It was related to leaving at the end of the quarter, but I don't recall the details). It made for a very uncomfortable atmosphere. I can't imagine what the reasoning was, maybe just that it simplified things for some bureaucrat somewhere in HR.

3 month to end of the quarter was more common in past in germany. And it goes both ways. Its actually to protect you as an employee. Its a contract thing. If you had wanted you could have changed that before signing. But its not unusual for reasons mentioned in this thread to let people go earlier. But both sides have to agree to that. Usually a pay-off is involved when youre fired and asked to leave erlier.

Can you elaborate on the "had to" part?

i.e., was it a contractual thing, a legal thing, or just an accepted practice? Or a request from your previous company which they wouldn't budge on?

its something called "Kündigungsschutz". most contracts have these clauses and they are often effective after some kind of trial period (usually 3-6 months, depending on job and experience). its a measure to support the employee but it works both ways.

"Kündigungsschutz" (employment protection) is actually something different. It basically means you can't be fired except for one of three reasons:

1. Reasons in your behavior. For instance, if you steal from the company.

2. Reasons in your person. For instance you have developed a back-problem and can't do your job anymore.

3. Reasons within the company. Like restructuring eliminates the job you were doing. And this reason also requires that the employer has to prove that you cannot work at a different place in the company. If the company wants to fire a lot of people for financial reasons it has to be "sozialverträglich" (socially acceptable) which means employees with children and older employees can't be fired unless all younger employees without kids are also fired. There are exceptions.

It is actually quite hard to fire someone in Germany, who wants to stay. It takes years and if the employer loses in court he has to pay the salary for the time of the judicial proceeding plus the employee is still not fired. Because of this risk and the associated costs for the employer it is common to have some compensation payed to the employee. Its usually about half of his current monthly salary (before tax) times the years he was in the company.

The employment protection is not negotiable but the "Kündigungsfrist" (period of notice) is, to a certain degree. I think 1 month is the minimum. Employment protection is applicable if the company has more that 10 employees and the contract is indefinite. Fixed term contracts are only possible for at most 2 years. After that the employment becomes indefinite automatically.

Here is a long version in english: http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/ifpdial/info/term...

> It is actually quite hard to fire someone in Germany, who wants to stay.

Wow. In the USA, companies can basically fire anyone for any reason at any time (in my experience). And getting fired usually happens very quickly -- as in, that instant: "Please pick up your things and come with me. No, don't touch the computer, someone else will log you out."

The minimum one month notice does not mean you see your desk again, it just means you will be paid at least for one more month (plus what is reached in the settlement).

But an employee that really wants to stay can be on payroll for quite some time. But he cannot work for another company during that time. He has to be available.

But most people, I think, take the severance pay and move on. I did.

I don't really know what you mean by "settlement". There's no settlement that I know of when you get fired in the USA.

Here, a "settlement" is something you might get if you were to sue someone for something and the court awarded you money.

My bad english. I meant severance pay. I was still talking about Germany.

Ah. In the states, you only get severance if you're laid off. If you're fired, I don't think there's any severance pay involved.

Also, in the states, if you're laid off, you can apply for "unemployment benefits" from the state. If you're fired, you cannot.

Remind me never to hire anyone in Germany.

We have this too in Switzerland. If a separation period is not mentioned in the contract it's automatically 2 months (or 3 I don't remember).

If you get fired, the company has to tell you the same number of months in advance.

It was in my contract.

I've never even heard of anyone asking for 4-6 weeks from an exiting employee. In my experience, offering 2 weeks is the standard courtesy but most ex-employers will work to get you out the door ASAP so they can get on with things.

When I left my last job my notice was 3 months and they insisted I work it.

If you were in a hire-at-will state, you could have just walked. They can't hold you to a time period.

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