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Comment by ams6110 | Hacker News Reader

What is a "fasting-like" diet? It is presumably not absolute fasting otherwise no need for the "like" qualifier.

From the paper [0]:

"Modified human fasting mimicking diet.

A single cycle of the modified fasting mimicking diet consist of Day 1 – pre-fasting followed by Day 2-8 – very low calorie diet. Day 1-prefasting consists of an 800 kcal (about 40% of normal caloric intake similar to mouse Day1 FMD) monodiet (fruit, rice, or potatoes) by preference of individuals. On the following day patients were recommended to use an oral laxative, Natrium Sulfuricum (20-40 g). FMD consisted of 100 ml vegetable broth or vegetable juice with 1 tablespoon of linseed oil 3 times daily, plus additional calorie-free liquids. The daily calorie intake was predefined with 200 – 350 kcal (10-18% of normal caloric intake similar to mouse Day 2-3 FMD). Patients were advised to drink 2-3 L of unsweetened fluids each day (water, and herbal teas) and to use an enema if tolerated. After the 7-day fasting period solid foods were stepwise reintroduced for three days, starting with a steamed apple at day 8. After the fasting and refeeding period a normocaloric, plant-based Mediterranean diet was maintained until study end."

[0] http://www.cell.com/cell-reports/pdfExtended/S2211-1247(16)3...

If this is a real effect, I wonder how many calories a persona can eat and still get the fasting effect. I have a non-24 hour circadian rhythm (although some thing still seem synchronized to light), which causes all sorts of negative effects, and I have found that eating < about 1500 kcal in a day reliably causes a significant improvement in my functioning two days later. Normally eating between 1500 and 2000 kcal most days does not cause this improvement. I am curious if what I am seeing is the same effects as would be caused by this much lowerer calorie diet or if there are tiers of fasting with different effects.

Also interesting is that I have had some severe digestive issues for years; antibiotics helped for a month or two and eating about 3000 kcal over five days has been just as helpful for a couple of weeks now and seems likely to be at least as effective as the antibiotics. However, one or two days of calorie restriction does not have that effect on me. If this fasting result holds for MS, the effect of fasting on gut bacteria could potentially be part of how it works.

Oddly enough, Natrum Sulphuricum seems to be a homeopathic remedy, not a common laxative - can anybody shed some light on this?

Why the enema?

No. It's not absolute fasting, although I do that some times. I've been doing alternate-day fasting or a 3/5 diet, for around 6-8 months at a time, for the last several years because it makes me feel better.

There was a great program on the BBC[1] about "fasting-like diets", which generally consist of extreme caloric restriction for some time -- where what counts as "extreme" and "some time" varies from programme to programme -- and when it got to Michael's own experiments with fasting, the description of the feelings are what encouraged me to give it a try.

[1]: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvdbtt_eat-fast-live-longer...

There was an HN story months ago about a study touting the benefits of a 5 day low cal fast every X months and a startup formed by the researchers is now shipping products based on it http://aboutprolon.com/

What's a 3/5 diet?

I guess eat for 5 days don't eat for 3? I've heard more often of the 5:2 diet though.

Technically a fast-mimicking diet would be: ad-libitum fat, barely sufficient protein (such that protein recycling is maintained --- no idea how to calculate this individually), near-zero (ie. only trace) carbohydrate. I suppose zero protein would most mimick fasting if done for just a few weeks tops but once all degenerate/damaged/mutated/malfunctioning proteins have been degraded for protein recycling or gluconeogenesis, lean tissue gets catabolized and this isn't desirable.) So sounds like:

- a normal-size piece of meat or a box of eggs (or whatever concoctions the vegetationists prefer)

- unlimited ghee/tallow/lard (or whatever oils one's belief system suggests)

- water or 0kcal drinks

- and if prolonged over more than a week or 2, perhaps micronutrient supplementation

Well, that sounds just like a ketogenic diet. They actually investigate keto alongside their fasting diet and find similar benefits in many areas, just not to as large a degree.

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