Hacker News Reader

Comment by mixedmath | Hacker News Reader

I use a Chromebook. But I also put it in devmode, put on Crouton, and run a full-blown Ubuntu on it as well. Everyone I know with a Chromebook does the same thing. Then it becomes an inexpensive Linux Laptop that handles some things automatically.

View on HN

Same here. Anybody who repeats the "Chromebooks are for kids who don't do anything sophisticated with their computers" schtick is just showing off their ignorance. A decent Chromebook (e.g. a Pixel or soon one of the HP/Acer models) plus Crouton is a more real development machine than anything Apple ever made, because it's more like the server where you'll eventually deploy. Then, unlike any of the other dozen Linux laptops I've had, it works and continues to work without requiring constant technically-proficient care just to keep things like wifi or suspend/resume from breaking. Mine replaced both an MBA and a Zenbook running Fedora. Haven't looked back since I got it.

> Crouton is a more real development machine than anything Apple ever made, because it's more like the server where you'll eventually deploy

Well, this assumes one particular type of development! I would not choose a Chromebook to develop, say, Chrome!

I tried Crouton a few years ago, wanting to run xbmc. Audio didn't work, because it required a newer version of the Linux kernel. It turns out you can't just install a stock Linux kernel: you have to use a patched device-specific kernel that Google provides, and for my device, the Google-provided kernel was too old. Perhaps I could have built some frankenkernel, but instead I gave up and got a real Linux box.

I would not try to use Crouton again for a general Linux box, because you become dependent on Google for updating core software.

Yes, and it would be fantastic to use a Mac or Windows box to debug something involving Linux kernel drivers, right? There will always be special cases. Sometimes there's only one solution, and you take what you can get within those parameters. I've worked on "one of this exists in the world" kinds of hardware a few times myself. Nonetheless, the "Chromebooks are for n00bs" meme is still BS. For the majority of people who are in love with their Macbooks, a high-end Chromebook is a more than adequate alternative. The fact that it didn't suit your special needs doesn't change that.

Developing software for something other than a Linux server is not some bizarre edge case. I was reacting to your unqualified claim that a Chromebook is "a more real development machine."

My "special needs" was running popular and well known Linux software. Many people in this thread have said that running Crouton on a Chromebook is just like having Ubuntu or Debian. But this is not so:

1. Google does not reliably update core software

2. It's harder to get help when things go wrong, because the system is sufficiently different from an ordinary Linux box

For those reasons, if you want to run Linux software, it's better to use a familiar Linux distribution, and not ChromeOS.

If you want/need to run a very particular version of Linux software, then maybe a Chromebook's not for you. But many thousands of people successfully run all kinds of Linux software that works just fine inside the Crouton environment. I didn't and wouldn't say you're a bizarre edge case, but xbmc is being far more picky about versions than it needs to be and that's not ChromeOS's or Crouton's fault. It's unreasonable to criticize the platform because it didn't satisfy your one use case, and it certainly does nothing to refute my original point that ChromeOS isn't just for newbies.

To develop things like Chrome, a mac won't be enough as well. Chances are you will need a powerful desktop beast anyway, in this case, a Chromebook can be a super handy addition for checking emails, browsing the Internet, not to mention you can also ssh to your desktop and work off the Chromebook.

> you have to use a patched device-specific kernel that Google provides

Only because upstreaming is so slow. Those patches end up on the relevant mailing lists and eventually get merged.

Do you replace Chrome OS with Ubuntu, dual boot, or run it in a VM? Do you spend most of your time in Chrome OS or in Ubuntu?

So with Crouton, you don't actually dual boot. It's more like a VM, but it uses the same kernel that Chrome OS uses, so it's more like Docker than Virtualbox.

I have a cheap 11" Acer C720 and I probably use it more than my Macbook Pro. I have command line only Ubuntu installed, and the result is a tab I can open to have a full linux shell, much like how you would use a macbook. For all intents and purposes, it's the same OS, but it's not.

A few things I particularly like are battery like (maybe 8 hours?), no fans, matte screen, and macbook like keyboard and trackpad. Also Chrome OS maps the F1/F2 keys to forward/backward keys in Chrome, which I use all the time surprisingly.

All in all, I would highly recommend a Chromebook. For development it's great. If you don't want to use Crouton, a linode server you can SSH into is just as good as a macbook really. Now that they will be able to run all Android apps, it's even more tempting.

> It's more like a VM, but it uses the same kernel that Chrome OS uses, so it's more like Docker than Virtualbox.

I'm amused by this explanation, because I grew up doing chroot before virtualization took off and obviously before Docker.

Feeling old.

I don't know if it's age really. I've explained, to developers well older than me things like "well, this practice is bad because <reasons> here's an article from <before I was born>" or having to translate old fundamental concepts into their latest hip implementations. "this use calls less for virtualization and more for something like a Chroot..." "what?" "Sorry I mean like a Jail... cgroups...? LXC...? sigh Docker." "Oh! Yeah, that makes sense. nods as if they understand"

The funny thing is, I'm not old. I'm under 30. I just started young, on my own, and fell in with some more experienced sysadmin crowds.

>No fans

I think you must be mistaken on this. I own a C720, and there is a fan in it.

You can see it in the upper left of this picture:

https://www.chromium.org/_/rsrc/1381990807648/chromium-os/de...

I don't actually do any of those three. Underneath ChromeOS is a *nix variant. So Crouton actually allows one to change the root directory to something else [like away from the meaningless root that ChromeOS puts you in, essentially in a Downloads directory, and to the actual root of the machine].

In practice, this means that if I hit a three key chord, then I flip over to a regular xfce, and if I hit another three key chord I go back to ChromeOS.

I do all web-browsing in ChromeOS. I do all programming and textediting in xfce. Or rather in vim, using my standard vim setup. [I'm a mathematician, so I do somewhat minor programming and lots and lots of LaTeX writing].

Do you find the anemic storage limiting?

I have a similar setup, and ran into storage problems pretty quickly. Eventually I reflashed it and installed Linux natively, and got a fast 64GB SD card for my home partition.

A 128gb usb drive costs very little now.

I have the Samsung Chromebook 2 (Exynos CPU, 4GB of RAM, and 16GB of storage).

I tried using a Class 10 MicroSD card to hold an Ember-CLI project, and running commands on it was intolerably slow.

A drive 4-8x that size would be nice (and not hanging off the side of the computer).

Reply on news.ycombinator.com