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abarringer

Your feelings are way off. Most credit card debt is not paid off every month. Not by a very very long shot.

Average credit card debt per U.S. adult, excluding zero-balance cards and store cards: $5,232.43

Average debt per credit card that usually carries a balance: $7,494.44

Average number of cards held by cardholders - bankcards: 2.24

Average debt per credit card that doesn't usually carry a balance: $1,128.44

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-indu...

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Ignore these statistics, they're reporting average debt of credit cards. The level of debt per card is not an independent variable. You need to be reporting median debt.

Deeply ignorant question: Is this not of the sort of distribution where those are related, somehow?

While average doesn't mean much, I'm not sure what median debt will tell you either.

To settle the question you'd really need to know how many people carry a balance.

I sadly think those numbers are low-balled. But also, everyone complies their stats differently. I have 10 credit cards. I find it strange the average is barely 2. Most people I know hold ~5 but only use 1-2. But I also think the average debt per household is higher too. Since your numbers are 'per us adult'.

Regardless, I think US citizens are carrying way too much debt and...one day, this musical chairs dance will come to a stop. :/

Those numbers are averages. They have a minimum of zero (credit cards don't report positive balances), but their maximum can be large.

The right, most informative conclusion about one $10k balance and 9 $0 balances is that "almost everyone in this group carries no balances, but one carries unmanageable debt", not "the average credit card debt is a manageable but significant $1000".

Statistics guarantees they are guaranteed to be high, not low. Medians and top/bottom percentiles would be more informative.

FWIW, I don't think you or I actually know that many average people. While we've got a pile of no-fee cards with high limits, many people get by with high-interest, low limit cards that have fees attached. Below that there are a lot of people who have to rely on prepaid Visa cards to participate in the cashless economy.

Source: have moved a _lot_ of credit cards through SEM.

I agree based on my post but...I've also read many 'stats' about this issue of US personal debt and have seen various figures range to what the OP wrote to adding a ZERO to each figure. 2.24 >> 22.4 cards. 7,000 debt >> 70,000 debt. Etc. The stats on this topic are just all over the place. Not only do I think 'you nor I' would know the averages, I don't think anyone really has a clue except maybe the FBI/Fed/CIA, if they ever looked into the matter.

One thing I think we can all agree on is that American's are deep into debt and it's not looking good. :/

> Average credit card debt per U.S. adult, excluding zero-balance cards and store cards: $5,232.43

That is amazing and terrifying.

In a country with a GDP per capita (not per adult, to be clear - this includes non-adults) of around $50k, why would you feel that's terrifying?

Because we know that wealth is distributed unequally, and that a scrupulous individual earning $35k gross might have a cash flow under $1k.

The debt is also distributed unequally. Mostly so that those who have more wealth, have also more debt (though not 1:1 of course).

On unsecured credit cards? I doubt it.

Wealthier people are the ones who have unsecured credit cards. Banks apparently have no problem giving me a limit of $50k without any sort of collateral, but my dad can't get a credit card without depositing his entire limit.

I was given an unreasonable amount of unsecured credit when I turned 18, by virtue, apparently, of the fact that I was now 18. It certainly wasn't because I had any stable income or assets.

My point was that larger credit limits typically come on unsecured cards, not secured ones.

For example, I can get a $20k limit card. It's pretty unlikely that you can get a secured card with a $20k limit.

It's not the amount by itself, it's the ridiculous interest rates on top of the amount.

But how much of that debt will be retired without paying any interest? My cards have something like an 18% APR, but I've never paid a penny.

Median is $2,300 which brings this into perspective a bit more.

http://www.valuepenguin.com/average-credit-card-debt

Thanks for this. Was about to go nuts about how useless an average is on this sort of thing.

Well the median is an average so...

And honestly both averages should be presented together, paints a terrifying picture

Median is the middle value of all values in a sequence. Average is the sum of all numbers in a sequence, divided by the count of values.

Take [0,2,100]: average is 34, but median is 2.

nostrebored is just pointing out that the median and arithmetic mean are both averages.

I'm being needlessly pedantic, but yeah.

You're thinking of the mean.

Both median and mean are averages.

The median of a list of numbers is the value that minimizes the sum of absolute differences to each value, sum([abs(median - x) for x in list])

The average of a list of numbers is the value that minimizes the sum of squared difference to each value, sum([squared(mean - x) for x in list])

They're both summary statistics in that they're single numbers used to describe a dataset, but a median is not a "kind of average." The mean is the mean and nothing else.

Incorrect, median, mean, and mode are all types of averages. Usually when people say average they mean the mean, but they're all different kinds of averages trying to identify the central tendency.

"Average: a number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number." -- Google

> Incorrect, median, mean, and mode are all types of averages.

There's a bunch of means (arithmetic, geometric, and harmonic, for instance), and they are all (as well as median and mode) averages.

Though, usually when people say "mean" without further specifics they mean the "arithmetic mean", and usually when they say "average" without further specifics they also mean "arithmetic mean" (though "median" is also fairly common, and "mode" isn't that uncommon.)

Median != mean. Usually, "average" is expected value, or mean.

And its only the tip of the iceberg, read Richard Vague or Steve Keen. Global private sector debt is at historic record levels. It's the sole reason the economy stays sour.

But still, no inflation for us. Nope.

I agree, it is terrifying.

They say the average US household has $15,762 of Credit Card debt.[0] (that's disputed it could be from 5K to 15K depending on what numbers you believe) [1]

With an average rate of 15.07%[2]

Which works out to something like a minimum payment of $600 a month with $188 of it going to interest.

The Average US consumer is not just tapped out but actively being strangled by debt.

"47: The percentage of Americans who can’t pay for an unexpected $400 expense through savings or credit cards"[3]

What this really means is a near majority of the country is on the very brink of bankruptcy one trip to the ER (with insurance) or a tire blowout and down they go.

The terrifying part is that any hint of recession and the ripple effect could take a lot of us down with it.

[0] https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-card-data/average-cre... [1] http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/images/infograph... [2] http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/interest-rate-re... [3] http://www.federalreserve.gov/econresdata/2014-report-econom...

So what happens when you take away all business related credit card debt? Specifically anyone with a small business or related activity?

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