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Comment by bgribble | Hacker News Reader

The US is a nation of immigrants. As it stands now, H1-B is one of the few paths for technically-educated people to get lawful work and eventual permanent residence and citizenship in the US.

I don't think there's anything wrong with sponsoring an H1-B for a talented and qualified person who wants to live in the US. There's room, and there are jobs, and complaining about immigrants is just stupid.

That said, the H1-B gives companies way too much leverage over their workers. In a "restructuring" of my former employer (aka entering the drain-spiral) , the NYC office was closed and most people were offered the "opportunity" to relocate to Sacramento, or take severance. Not a single person relocated.... except the lone H1-B, who had a new baby and didn't feel like he had any choice because he could lose his visa otherwise. That kind of coercive force is a sign of a broken power dynamic, due to a broken law.

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An H1-B is not a path to permanent residence. Having an H1-B does not help in any way with getting a green card. If you apply through employment the sponsoring company does not get any fee reduction, the application is not processed any faster. This is a completely independent petition.

The only way you could say an H1B is a path to immigration is for the case where a non-immigrant meets a spouse and get a green card through marriage. That's what happened to me, but this is really just by accident. Someone under a student visa could experience the same outcome for example.

You sait it yourself, the power of companies over H1Bs is overwhelming. Upon termination, an H1B has to leave the country in the following 24 hours, there is no "grace period" even though it's a widespread myth.

It's not a path in the most pedantic term, but if I were born in China or India, the usual path is

1. do masters in the US

2. work on OPT until I am fortunate enough to be picked in H1B lottery, or until my OPT runs out, whichever comes first

3. IF I get picked in H1B lottery, apply for PR

4. wait 4-8 years for my category to be current

5. eventually get PR

short of an investor visa, marrying someone who is a citizen, qualifying for EB1, or applying from abroad and waiting 10 years, how else do I get a green card?

More like 8-12 years, if you switch a job without getting a I-140 approved and 12+, if you switch jobs and GC process gets reset for each job change.

This isn't fully correct. For most Canadians, for example, the H1B is the stepping stone between the TN (a nonresident-only status) and EBX. You can certainly get an employment based visa on a TN, but the process is complicated, has many rules and restrictions, and is just a whole lot more simple with a H1B.

It's possible yes. But I think Canada is a special case considering all the special rules that exist between the US and Canada.

An H1B may be "simpler", but considering the lottery stats it's far from being a given. I surely am glad I got mine a while ago before the H1B program became so crazy, with the CAP being reached in literally hours.

1 in 3 (last year) or 1 in 4 (this year) isn't too horrible when you have a few years to apply before they stop issuing TN(/OPT) extensions. That said, you could get crazy unlucky and not get it each time, in which case, that would really suck. You do have other avenues at that point at some companies, like going the L-1 route, but you'd still have to move.

Sorry, I misspoke. You are right about it not being a "path" to permanent residence in any legal sense, and I definitely agree that it's not a humane or fair type of visa.

OTOH, in my (limited) experience, I have worked closely with a total of 4 H1B employees, and at least 3 of them are now permanent residents or citizens. I can't speak to the overall frequency of this happening, but that's my anecdata.

I don't disagree that de facto it makes it easier to have a company sponsor you since they know who are a good worker. I just wanted to point out that in regards to the GC application it has no influence.

Do you happen to know if all your co-workers got their residency through employment ?

I only know one H1B who is attempting to get a GC through her company, she started the process 3 years ago and is not done yet.

H-1B status itself doesn't lead to a green card, but it's much more difficult to get a company to go through the 1+ year process of sponsoring an immigrant worker petition (which does lead to a green card) if you're not able to work for them during that time.

I completely agree. As I said in another response, it is de facto easier to find a company willing to invest in the GC application if they know you're a good employee. But it doesn't not simplify/expedite the GC application at all.

"US is a nation of immigrants"

The US is a nation full stop and we can write whatever laws we please without regard to when people arrived here in the first place.

Are Madagascar, Mauritius and Haiti also disallowed from having immigration restrictions because they were also populated in the Modern era?

>That said, the H1-B gives companies way too much leverage over their workers.

Which is why they need to be done away with. If we still want the talent (and why shouldn't we, brain fill is good), we need a way for them to enter which does not tie them to an employer.

Well technically an employer can sponsor someone overseas directly for a green card. But that takes 2-3 years so even the best intentioned employer will bring them over on H1-B so that they can start working earlier.

I completely agree, but it's having your cake and eating it too. I'm in full support of H-1B, but you shouldn't be allowed cheaper labor and also not pay taxes. I'd like to see one or the other, pay taxes and have lower labor, or employee Americans and get tax breaks.

all visa holders pay all taxes. we even pay social security which we are not entitled to unless we become permanent residents.

To be perfectly honest, the majority of American residents/citizens that are currently paying social security likely won't receive any kind SS benefit.

Well that's politics. Just because the establishment intends to privatize Social Security doesn't mean it's fiscally nonviable.

Im talking about the companies employing them, not the employee.

nation of immigrants

Technically, most Americans were born in America.

Yes, but only about 2% have a significant ancestry in the Americas back more than 500 years. Relative to most of the rest of the world, almost all Americans are newcomers.

500 years? Like 20 years after Columbus?

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