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Comment by tehwebguy | Hacker News Reader

Here's an awesome TSA story for you:

Late last year while trying to fly out of LAX a TSA employee thought I was carrying a throwing star. They called the police, who correctly identified as a toy in seconds.

I thought the whole ordeal was over until I got a "notice of violation" in the mail from TSA 45 days later.

Now I'm banned from pre-check for three years, even though I have global entry and even though the fine was thrown out. It's a kangaroo court were the only two options are you pay the fine or they convert it to a warning.

Some shit head got a gold star for "finding a weapon" and I get fucked.

Please defund these 0-terrorist-catching losers.

View on HN

I've flown with shaving razors and pocket knives attached to my keys numerous times. They get found and confiscated about 20% of the time. I recently forgot to remove both and the TSA agent spent 5 minutes looking for something. He found the shaving razor, but not the pocket knife and was very pleased with himself.

Its absurd the profiling going on with the TSA. If I dress well, I get rushed through the lines quickly. If I dress like a slob, I get subjected to additional baggage checks and pat downs on a regular basis while TSA agents bark orders at me like I'm incompetent. This article makes it sound like they are trained to do this under the guise of "behavior detection". Once I got precheck, I started getting treated like a human being.

Fuck the TSA. If we need to provide jobs to dropouts, give them something meaningful to do without subjecting the rest of the population to their "authority".

Similar story here. I'm a smoker and usually do international/inside-US flights on a monthly basis. In 7-8 years the only lighters I recall losing have been in my home country (where pat downs and having your bags opened are a common thing).

Curiously, I haven't had a TSA line longer than 45 minutes flying from places in NY, CA or FL (I mostly flight late evening/disgustingly-early morning though) in the last few months.

PS: laxatives, you mention being treated like a human. Why not help by not referring to TSA employees as "dropouts"?

FWIW I've had agents inspect my bad and allow me to keep lighters. I've only had lighters confiscated on a handful of international flights, and never in the US.

Yeah you're right its not fair to call them dropouts.

Lighters are not forbidden. I was told to toss out all but one when coming back into the U.S. from Canada, once, but that's about as far as it's ever gone. I travel a fair amount and almost always with one or more lighters.

One can carry one lighter (and no more than one), of the gas type (no Zippo's) and must be carried on the person (not in the hand baggage).

Having said that, these rules are usually not strictly enforced.

That explains why I was asked to toss out my extras. By the way, this document says that Zippos are fine:

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/as...

That's a regulation I support, because unlike toothpaste it's a legit fire hazard. A broken lighter that shorts something out can get nasty quickly.

One lighter on a person means a problem will be relatively small and quickly noticed.

I carry 2-3 lighters in my backpack at any given time and fly regularly. Have never had to remove them or had them confiscated in the last 4 years.

I think the parent commenter was using "dropout" as an adjective, not a derogatory term.

Disposable razors are allowed. If they are confiscating those, they're not following their own rules.

I didn't get a warning, but I did have my bag opened, all my belongings thrown out on the ground, and was delayed for 30-45 minutes...

All this because I had a box of poptarts that apparently looked like a bomb.

It may be an unpopular opinion to express, but these "horror stories of TSA incompetence" are somewhat entertaining to those who cannot afford to fly. It's like that "Cops" TV show, on location in the airports of America, with the men and women of law enforcement - the TSA in this case.

Your having LEOs violate your rights and go thru your belongings - for someone thinking your box is a bomb - is no different than a cop stopping a driver for thinking the driver's Coke can is a Budweiser and searching their car.

This is why I can't support high speed rail enough. You get from downtown nyc to Washington dc without having your human rights violated. And its faster too.

What makes you think they wouldn't institute similar TSA-style [1] security on a shiny new high-profile high speed rail?

1. Or literally the TSA: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyo...

They've pulled this before in the commuter train station in Chicago.

Right, Spain already does this. And I've during high-profile events I've seen TSA patrolling the main subway stations in Washington, DC.

I've been travelling all around Spain for the last month and I wouldn't characterize the Renfe/AVE security as anywhere near the TSAs. You basically just put your bags through a machine and get waved through, and I've yet to wait in much of a line.

Yeah, same thing for the Eurostar, it's a much saner security and check-in process. As much as I love flying, I always take the train from London to Paris or between Madrid and Barcelona.

I nearly lost a pocketknife when my suitcase was x-rayed at a Spanish train station.

Our small satchel bags and bodies did not get x-rayed, but the large suitcases did. I forgot I had a pocketknife in there (as it's fine usually for airport security as a check in bag). Somehow, when my suitcase got scanned, they mixed up the order and the person behind me got stopped for having a knife. By that time, I was making a quick getaway to the platform as I didn't want to lose the knife.

I could have just had a knife (and bomb?) in my satchel bag, so was pretty confused by the whole x-ray suitcases only situation.

IIRC the TSA occasionally sets up airport style security checkpoints at train exits. A search of HN should show some examples.

VIPR is what you're looking for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_Intermodal_Prevention_...

It's not exactly airport style - at least in NYC and Philly they swab you for explosives and check your ID. No X-Ray or nude-o-scope. You're free to not go through the checkpoint (but you won't board your train).

Boston police (or transit police) does this randomly on the MBTA train system.

Ehhh, I once had the contents of my backpack dumped all over a train station floor by the NYPD while leaving the LIRR.

> Your having LEOs violate your rights and go thru your belongings

the TSA smurfs are NOT an LEO! They are roughly the equivalent of desk clerks dressing in clothing designed to confuse people about this. They neither have the rights nor the competence of an LEO.

The harassment quota on TSA security checks is 100%. Meanwhile, I've never been stopped driving once.

(Also, of course, there is a semblance of due process with traffic stops)

I don't think that's an unpopular opinion at all - even for those who fly regularly. So much so, there are already several different COPS style 'reality' shows depicting controversial airport security encounters, at least one in the USA.

Thats funny. I had an unopened box of amazon aa batteries which really looked like a bomb on the x-ray (got to see it when they were inspecting). We both laughed about it when the lady saw what it was. I could tell he was really nervous though.

Took me all of 5 minutes to resolve. Guess some tsa agents are just not very good at their job.

I flew from Atlanta a while back with a bunch of Trader Joe's 'Pound Plus' chocolate bars and a ten pound (!) Ghirardelli chocolate bar in my carry-on which got quite a reaction. The poor girl doing the screening seemed to think an explosion was imminent and was visibly distressed, quickly leaving her post and grabbing a supervisor. For those that don't know, big chocolate bars are organic material and look like explosives and I've seen this happen before - I was waiting to see the reaction.

The supervisor and the girl came back and I laughed and said 'clearly you have spotted my giant chocolate bar', and volunteered all the standard answers (yes I packed this myself, it's been with me the whole time, etc) and they calmed down. I was worried they were going to want to open the package which was a gift and I didn't want them all riled up.

We all learned something that day, they learned that big ten-pound chocolate bars are a real thing and I learned that terrorists can probably carry bombs on board as long as they are sealed in a Ghirardelli box. TSA didn't even bother with the swabs or sniffer dog.

Bottom line is that TSA agents have no skin in the game, if they miss dangerous items it's the passengers who suffer the loss, not the agents standing safely at their posts on the ground at the airport.

And at their current pay rate, they probably can't afford to fly very often.

I imagine if TSA agents were required to randomly fly to another location during their shift, things would change.

> Guess some tsa agents are just not very good at their job.

Probably depends on the metric you're using to evaluate that.

Nope, it doesn't. Even using their own metrics they are abject failures: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/topoftheticket/la-na-tt-tsa-a...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/01/tsa-fails-95-percen...

Last time I came back to the US, customs stopped me before leaving the airport because I had "undeclared food items". Yes, I had a bag of snack sized Oreos and nothing more.

... which is an undeclared food item. It's a simple question, and you answered it incorrectly.

They're just as bad at identifying actual "weapons": I flew to South America with a layover in Miami a few years back. Got past TSA without any trouble on the domestic leg, then I had to go through again for the international leg.

The second time through security, they said they saw a blade on the x-ray.. turns out they were right. I forgot I had left a multi-tool in my bag.

Thankfully, they just trashed it and let me continue on my way. The story still flabbergasts me, though.

Similar story - a member of my group went through security at LAX with no problems, but was stopped at Heathrow because of something suspicious in her handbag. We emptied everything out of the bag, re-scanned it, and the object was still detected.

After feeling around in the bag we discovered some fabric cutting shears had apparently been accidentally been sewn into the lining by someone on the factory line (they looked something like this if I remember correctly: http://imgur.com/ZKlsjJw).

We just cut them out, handed them over and went on our way. Was a really strange experience though.

Same with me, 10 days ago in Dubai. Unfortunately, there were TWO levels of officers who didn't have decision making authority, they had to reach out to a 3rd level who decided it was something in the bag's fabric (vs me carrying something). Unfortunately, where you are traveling to has some impact in DXB. SFO looks much better(for someone like me) than Abu Dhabi/Sharjah

TSA factors in if an item appeared to be intentionally concealed as well, I'm glad you didn't get a notice with a significant fine

The TSA has nothing to do with Heathrow where it was found, though. (I don't think in the UK anyone can be fined: if there's any belief of malice, you're likely to be dealt with under normal criminal law such as conspiracy to murder, or potentially terrorism related offences; if there's not, you can either surrender your property or return landside).

My bad, I misread it

A criminal conviction could lead to a fine.

Well yes, but you couldn't immediately receive a notice with a significant fine.

The OP's point was: they either think you're trying to bring down a plane or they don't. Punishing minor infractions is not on their menu.

Almost: the important point is they have no right to impose any fines; any punishment will be done by the British Transport Police in accordance with British law, and there are relatively few crimes of possession in the UK (drugs are an obvious one, but even then a first arrest for Class C drugs is typically dealt with by means of a police caution). Essentially: any punishment arising from a security checkpoint would be a police matter, and have nothing to do with those manning the security checkpoint.

Except for drug offenses

My friend accidentally took a multi-tool through airport screening shortly after 9/11 and had to lawyer up to get the resulting shitstorm to go away (and he's white and an American citizen)

On the other hand, I remember when I was a kid in the 90s and accidentally took my pocket knife (3" blade) through screening, and they found it but let me bring it on the plane...

I used to take my CRKT M16-14 knife on the nerd bird SJC<->SEA round trip twice a week. Nobody cared. This was mid-90s until just before 9/11. I didn't try to hide it - just tossed it in the bin with my keys etc.

https://www.copsplus.com/prodnum4396.php

Well, before 9/11 you didn't have to check your firearms. You could carry them on as long as they were in a case. Things were more reasonable back then.

> Well, before 9/11 you didn't have to check your firearms. You could carry them on as long as they were in a case.

Do you have a source for that? Because for as long as I can remember they have had to be checked, including in the 90s.

A lot of people wouldn't consider it reasonable to allow people to carry guns around, least of all on a plane.

It turns out that many people have silly -yet strongly held- beliefs. :) shrug

I can see how one might immediately jump to the conclusion that I said people bringing firearms on board an airplane is reasonable. The sentences are so close to one another. I can see how tempting it would be to do that. But just for the sake of argument, let's pretend I did say that. So... How do you feel about armed air marshals?

Absolutely not true. You haven't been able to carry a firearm onto an airplane for, pretty much, forever.

You always could, and still can, check a firearm into luggage on a flight.

Absolutely true. In the 90s, I went to a regional shooting competition with a handful of other high school kids, and we brought firearms onto the plane.

I'm sorry, but you are just wrong. The relevant US code is at https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/46505 -- it's been in place since the 50's. Security screening to detect weapons has been in place since the early 1970's, after a rash of hijackings in the late 60's. You must be mis-remembering.

I accidentally took a multi-tool (with several blades) through an airport security checkpoint 2 weeks after 9/11. It was found on my person, and confiscated. I was told I could collect it on arrival at the 'weird items' desk at London Heathrow baggage claim. When I arrived a Heathrow it was waiting for me in a padded envelope at the desk.

I was flying out of Beijing, you know... that country with terrible human rights... To be clear: there are multiple human rights issues in China, many of which are far worse than the US. Just not everything.

I flew SwissAir first class in the '90's and they actually handed out branded Swiss Army knives to passengers on the plane... The good ol' days.

My grandmother collected the silverware that airplanes handed out. Now we've got a pretty funny assortment of airline-branded metal knives.

FYI you are allowed to carry on screwdrivers, wrenches and pliers less than 7 inches long. More bulky than a multi-tool, but at least you can carry something? https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/prohibited-ite...

They can still confiscate whatever they want, regardless of the rules: https://bbs.boingboing.net/t/makers-tsa-compliant-multitool-...

They confiscated a friend's _comb_, because it opened with a switchblade-style button.

No, I'd wager the comb got confiscated because the TSA agent thought it looked cool and wanted one.

Just like iPads. http://www.wired.com/2012/12/tsa-ipads/

Once I was flying out of Stockholm, and behind me in the security check was a handyman who was just passing security to fix something on the inside. He had a small open toolbox on wheels with him, so after I went through the metal detector, they pushed his box through, which obviously beeped, since it was full of screwdrivers, knives, hammers, and a lot of other sharp metal things. And then the handyman went through, and he also set off the metal detector, so the security people started checking him and patting him down.

So noone is looking at the toolbox that I'm standing right next to. I could easily have grabbed a knife or two if I had wanted to.

And once they finished patting him down, he grabs his tools and walks on.

And I'm just standing there, gaping at the stupidity of it all.

Ooh yeah, in between times when they're actively inspecting YOU, it'd be totally trivial to hand things off and circumvent their "secure" zone. Thinking about all the ways you could sneak something through if you wanted to is always entertaining while I'm waiting.

I had a wine opener confiscated because of the 1 inch knife ... can't imagine how someone might use a wine opener to hijack a plane

The 9-11 hijackers used razor blades. So, its been done. Of course, no American passenger is going to believe that everything will be fine if they comply these days so I don't think its possible to pull off 9-11 again.

> The 9-11 hijackers used razor blades. So, its been done.

Only in the days when we didn't lock the cockpit doors. Now that the cockpit doors are locked, even an actual gun wouldn't be sufficient to hijack the plane (the cockpit doors are essentially impossible to open from the outside, at least not without equipment that would be impossible to bring on a plane and would be rather conspicuously slow to use during a flight).

There is a huge difference hijacking protocol between now and 9/11.

Post 9/11 passengers are not going to allow a guy with a razor blade hijack a plane, or even several guys with razor blades. Passengers and crew members now fight back and have the advantage of numbers.

>Passengers and crew members now fight back and have the advantage of numbers.

Yeah, but what if _everyone_ on the plane were a hijacker?

Wait...

The cockpit door is kept locked now, so it's moot. The pilot will land, SWAT team will storm the plane. Done.

See #2: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/hey_wait_a_m...

A stab in the jugular will get the job done.

But of course you can break the plastic knife and fork they give you and still stab someone in the jugular.

You could even sharpen the headphones connector.

Or repurpose any of the other things you can buy after the security line: http://www.terminalcornucopia.com/

I'm sure i'm on some watch list for visiting that site now, but it's still fantastic that somebody put all together. It's like an anarchist cookbook that isn't designed to maim bored teens!

Very similar story about MIA. I flew out of ATL with a pocket knife, and lost it at MIA on the way back. Also conversely, ATL wouldn't let me carry-on my pool cue and forced me to check it, but at YUL on the way back, they had no problem with it.

I think it's more of a roulette of circumstances more than a pattern of compliance/negligence, but it is curious to have 2 MIA data points.

Flying out of London Gatwick, I once had a pack of torx driver bits confiscated "because they're dangerous tools, you see". But they failed to confiscate the 8" flathead screwdriver that was also in the bag, much to my amusement when I found it during unpacking.

I also flew Oslo->Lisbon->Sao Paolo->Rio de Janeiro->Lisbon->Oslo about five years ago with a 7" soldering iron in my hand luggage.

Then there was the time when I had my bag very thoroughly searched flying out of Geneva because of a highly suspicious loaf of bread.

I have passed through TSA on four different flights (across two trips) with my multitool in my backpack. This was, of course, completely accidental on my part.

These events caused me to put together a pre-TSA personal checklist, since I can't count on getting lucky again, and I really like that multitool. (:

Same. It's basically a crapshoot if they'll find it. I've accidentally brought pocket knives, bottle openers, and multi-tools. The detection rate is about 1 in 8 if I forget to grab it out of my carry on.

Slightly off-topic, but just to clarify Miami requires everyone to go through security again for an international connection, or was this a special case?

I wonder if it's a case like domestic terminal -> international terminal without any post-security options to move between the two.

I do know that flying _back_ to the US on my last few international flights, there was a second security checkpoint I had to go through. Very silly. I had filled my water bottle at a fountain at the gate and then had to empty it right out 5 minutes later.

Whenever you transfer at different security zones, you have to go through security again. So I fly threw Japan a lot, and always have to recheck (but they are pretty fast). I'm connecting through Moscow next week to get to Europe, and I'm dreading Russian security a bit (it's pretty fast, they don't actually check much, but very disorganized).

I think the theory with this is many foreign countries don't do sufficient checks.

Based on travelling in south America, south East Asia etc, this is sometimes correct.

You have to go through security again for international flights that connect to a domestic flight, but not usually (ever?) if you've passed TSA within the US and are connecting to leave the country. That's true at every airport in the US, not just Miami.

> You have to go through security again for international flights that connect to a domestic flight, but not usually (ever?) if you've passed TSA within the US and are connecting to leave the country.

There are lots of times when with domestic -> international flights (or even domestic -> domestic, in some cases) there would be terminal transfers required that would leave the secured zone and thus require passing through security again incidentally, even without a specific policy.

Several airports where I know this was an issue have been redesigned to alleviate this, but I'm sure there are some where it is still an issue.

Flying out of Louisville, I saw the same story with the guy in front of me - except it was a clip for a pistol and he was livid because this was his return flight, meaning they missed it in Miami (I think it was Miami). I'm glad the SDF TSA caught it but it definitely didn't inspire confidence overall.

I used to carry a multi-tool on my keychain. I would routinely forget to remove it when going to the airport, and it was never flagged or even noticed. Amusingly I lost it when I was going to a club in SF and a bouncer found it during a pat-down and wouldn't let me bring it in.

I routinely bring contraband through airport security, not weapons, mind you, just silly contraband (unallowed arosols). I am almost never "caught."

This is so true. I was traveling with my partner and she decided to buy a bunch of haircare products. Like the 4 or 5 big 1L containers of shampoo and conditioner.

I told her "we need to check those bags, otherwise they'll make you throw them out". She said it would be fine. And guess what? It was. Almost 4L of liquids in her carry-on and no one said a thing.

The USCIS (the former Immigration and Naturalization Service) is a US government agency that functions without funding from the government - it gets all of its money from the fees and penalties paid by the people who require its services. Based on your story, I'm wondering if the TSA has a similar business model.

That sounds about right. I married a foreigner - costs $1500 and about 6 months to process the paperwork that lets her stay. I got sticker shock when I first learned that. I've never before seen government fees that high.

Many of the services USCIS runs are dependent on the local American Consulate. It is relatively cheap when you compare it to what a lawyer would charge for similar services. Most of the support staff could be better paid working in the private sector.

> costs $1500 and about 6 months to process the paperwork that lets her stay

Really not cool. Probably justify it by saying it takes a lot of time to process paperwork (that they created the requirement for in the first place...)

Did you know that it also now costs $2350 for someone to renounce their US citizenship?

It also takes an undefined amount of time (typically 12+ months) and they publish your name online on a State Department shame list of ex-Americans.

A decade ago, it was free to renounce your US citizenship. Around 2009 they started charging $450, and then suddenly raised the fee to $2350 in 2014.

Because people were renouncing to avoid the IRS, since US tax laws are completely screwed up.

Painful for those not trying to avoid taxes. A drop in the bucket for those trying to avoid taxes...

Regarding your last paragraph, maybe something else is in the pipeline that depends on it being difficult to renounce citizenship?

Revoking citizenship is a costly exercise. It was previously subsidized by all tax-payers, now it isn't.

Not that it matters to the price/cost of doing it, but what do you think are the most common reasons for forfeiting US citizenship? I suspect it's tax-evasion.

> what do you think are the most common reasons for forfeiting US citizenship? I suspect it's tax-evasion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accidental_American

Despite their lack of personal or business ties to the United States, accidental Americans have the same U.S. tax filing and payment obligations...

There's a business model! Claim someone is a citizen, boom they owe taxes!

Please read this: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2011/12/14/about-the-isaac-brock...

That's fucked up.

The wait times are way up now.

I had to go back and check a necklace because TSA agents claimed it could be used to whip or garotte. A freaking necklace!

I often fly with a travel-size guitar (one of these: http://www.guitarbench.com/Images%20for%20articles/brunner/8...).

The neck comes off and it packs into a case that's small enough for carry-on. It has often struck me that a guitar neck with six metal strings attached would make a fairly effective weapon (at least, by TSA standards!) but I've never had any trouble getting through security, apart from occasionally having to put it together.

Must be hard to keep the action and tuning good on that, after re-assembly?

Don't let them see your belt or shoelaces.

Please fund them fully or eliminate them entirely. The inbetween states just suck for everybody.

They're basically useless. The money would be better spent on agencies like the FBI that can prevent terrorists from ever showing up at airports.

As Israeli security experts have said time and time again, if the terrorist gets to the airport it's already too late. Brussels is an unfortunate demonstration of this principle.

They are basically useless, but we still have to go through them to get to our flights. The fewer staff they have, the slower it goes.

A sufficiently resourced-starved TSA might "succeed" at preventing attacks on passenger air travel by eliminating passenger air travel altogether. Once lines approach 4, 5 hours people will just drive.

Travelling by train is so ridiculously refreshing. Grab ticket online or at kiosk. Walk on train. Sit down.

There's nothing even close in the air travel world. Even Nexus people have to endure the occasional cavity search.

Isn't Amtrak plagued by horrific delays? The Chicago to NYC time is 20 hours by the schedule, and anecdotally 5-7 more hours waiting for freight trains is pretty common. Don't have real data or personal experience though.

I took a Chicago-NYC train once, and the crew was happy that it was "only" 4 hours late. IIRC, the physical rails are owned by freight lines, so freight gets a higher priority at crossings.

I guess I'm lucky I don't have to deal with Amtrak then.

I'd love to take a train, except that to go from Austin to Omaha I have to go through... Chicago??? (Seriously)

There is no funding them completely, because there's no definition of good enough. Whatever money you throw at them, the system will eat it up and ask for more.

It's gotta be killed. Immediately. It's a horribly bad idea that's just sinking its claws in further with each passing day. In fact, the politicians have probably already figured out -- we're stuck with them forever. I just wish they'd come out and be honest about it: infinite money sink, longer and longer lines, security theater, and more bullshit stories. Year after year.

What will funding them "fully" accomplish? Do you believe that their inability to catch terrorists is a matter of lack of funding?

This is like the time I asked someone on Reddit what they meant by funding education "fully." They said, "double." So... we'd be a world leader in primary and secondary education again if we just spent twice what we currently do? Well, I guess it was an answer.

There are 2 kinds of people: those who think that more money will somehow fix everything (them), and those that think more money will only exacerbate the problems that have brought us to the current point of the debate (me). As a matter of fact, as I write this, I think that may be the single most significant distinction between "conservativism" and "liberalism," as practiced in the US.

>As a matter of fact, as I write this, I think that may be the single most significant distinction between "conservativism" and "liberalism," as practiced in the US.

Ugh.. no it's not. That's a massive mischaracterization of liberalism. Liberals, by and large, do not think that throwing additional funding at things (for the sake of additional funds) will improve systems. It's an unfounded and cartoonish view of liberal policy.

My point in writing the comment was, in fact, to reduce the argument to one sentence. Don't get me started on who has the absolute stranglehold on political mischaracterization by simplification, when it's the left that screams "racism" every time someone tries to talk about illegal immigration and terrorism, neither of which is a race. That, too, is a "cartoonish" view of the argument. It is the cheapest form of political "debate" to be found today. So I guess oversimplification abounds on both sides.

Well maybe don't be one of the idiots who participates in this nonsense?

Um, no, liberals and conservatives generally fight over whether the spending should be on defense/security or social welfare. People who want to defund both defense and social welfare (libertarians) are an extremely rare fringe group that's vastly overrepresented on HN but gets basically no votes in the real world.

Yeah, well count me as one of those "no" votes. I voted for Barr in '08. Till people get it through their heads to stop "holding their noses" and casting votes on D's and R's, that's all they're ever going to get.

Ah yes, the thrifty conservatives that led us into the multi trillion dollar boondoggle of the Iraq War.

Admittedly, it may not have been clear, but I was referring to social issues. I don't consider the TSA a security issue. That's a work program wrapped up in propaganda.

If we have to spend money on a work program - and whether I'm for or against that in principal is not relevant here - could it be on something less dehumanizing for everyone paying for it, and less absurdly power-trip-y for the benefactors?

Which is the one that thinks increasing funding helps? Conservatives?

Terrorism is irrelevant at this point.

The wait times must be reduced regardless.

More parallelism in security checkpoints, less waiting in line.

The situation for travelers is worse, not better, if the TSA is understaffed but still present.

Weird, didn't know they did that. On literally my first flight after getting pre-check, I somehow had a razor blade stuck under the insole of a pair of shoes I was bringing in my carry-on bag (a pair of shoes I hadn't worn since before I had moved apartments, so I assume somehow that's how it got in there). The metal detector picked it up, the TSA agent took my shoe apart, found it, seemed totally unconcerned, threw it in the trash, and waved me through.

>Some shit head got a gold star for "finding a weapon" and I get fucked.

Everything about security and law enforcement has some level of perverse incentives. People learn to game the system and their supervisors don't care as long as there's a benefit to them. I'm certain this guy knew it was a toy, but he wanted that gold star and his supervisor wanted a report showing all the gold stars that month were from his guys.

This is a classic problem in management. The real question is who can fix this? In government, perverse incentives eventually become the norm, not the exception, as everyone eventually gets in the game and there's no reason for anyone to upset the cart. Especially when the higher ups are riding the pension/public sector union bus and anything that could risk that or cause a political issue is just ignored. They're not going to be the fall guy here. The shitheads outnumber them vasty. More than likely these managers are just ex-shitheads who played the game better than the other shitheads in the past and got promoted.

If airport security was run by a private company, the government could fire these guys and go with a different vendor if there was enough political pressure (or threaten to to get needed reforms), but because the TSA is the government, we're stuck with them.

Contracts for private sector companies doing work for the public sector tend to protect the private sector company from being fired. Also you may want to check who sits on the boards of some of the private contractors working for your government (or you might not want to - the results might make you more cynical).

Obviously we can't have a perfect world, but vendors get fired all the time. Contracts go up for renewel, a new administration fires old vendors, etc. Public sector unions are eternal and only get worse over time.

As far as "connections" go, Theranos is imploding right now even with its deep government and military connections.

Those connections likely made money and are also very likely immune from the current shit storm.

That's opinion not fact. Fact is no federal public sector union has ever eliminated itself, yet there's a long history of the government firing vendors.

Well, as the article illustrates, just defunding without actually changing any of the rules won't help.

It will eventually. You just have to stay strong and not let the terrorists win.

What kind of toy was it?

It was from League of Leagends (Sivir). It's not sharp or aerodynamic, just a "spinner" toy.

One of the vendors from the League convention I put on gave it to me as a token of thanks just before the event ended. I dropped it in my bag and forgot it until flying a few weeks later.

Bonus: My business partner was given the same one and the same thing happened at BUR. TSA asked if she wanted to mail it home, she said "toss it" and never heard another word!

Bonus 2: Cop asks me "who do you main?" (as in, what champion do you mainly play in LoL)

> Bonus: My business partner was given the same one and the same thing happened at BUR. TSA asked if she wanted to mail it home, she said "toss it" and never heard another word!

Free business idea!

UPS/FedEx/USPS packaging site at the end of the TSA line. When they say you can't take your cologne, knife, or toothbrush because it's too dangerous, you can immediately give it one of our helpful agents and they'll instead mail it your home!

They have this at many airports, but the prices are exorbitant. It was something like $10 to mail a swiss army knife home (vs. $15 to just replace it). They have a captive monopoly - there is one place you can mail it from, you can't step out of the terminal, and you have to decide immediately if you want to toss or mail - so they can charge whatever they want.

TSA already have a deal with USPS in some airports.

Yep, and IIRC getting out of line to mail something (plus you have to track down postage stamps elsewhere again IIRC) means you have to then go through the whole thing again.

They have this option in Seattle already

As a child in the early 80s I had my bag searched due to some GI Joe toys, in this case knockoffs of missiles for some SAM launcher or somesuch. It's not just a modern TSA thing.

I'm having trouble picturing this. Could you upload a photo to imgur?

This[1] isn't the toy, but this is splash art of the character with good view of her weapon. It's based off of the chakram. The toy would have looked something like that.

[1]: http://static1.eclypsia.com/images/lol/champions/Sivir_Splas...

The worst part is I'm garbage with Sivir /s

Something like this I'm guessing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotatable-LOL-League-of-Legends-Sivi...

Yeah exactly that.

I can imagine that looking really scary through the x-ray but it's definitely not a weapon.

I'm not indignant about being stopped with it - just about being treated like a criminal instead of someone who just made a mistake. It was like my 30th flight of the year and I had (real) status with 2 airlines, and I was in a tiny little PreCheck screening wing with maybe 6 other passengers and 10 TSA at 5:00 AM.

It just seems like everything lined up for this to be a simple process that would have been easily determined to be inadvertent and not a danger to anyone, but I still got hosed!

A standard-issue toy throwing star that every adult has on them when trying to get through security checkpoints.

Yep, the whole point for why pre-check exists is to allow frequent travelers who will always pass screening to get through the security clusterfuck faster. pre-check is for people that know how to travel and are willing to observe the rules.

A grown man carrying a "throwing-star" toy through pre-check SHOULD BE banned from this privilege and feel the scorn of other pre-check folks who just want to go through smoothly.

I hope you never find yourself on the other side of someone with the badge, even though these people don't even have the power to arrest me it was very scary feeling like they thought I was a criminal and nothing I could say could convince them otherwise.

"Did you know what you did was a felony? Did you know it's illegal to possess one of these?" - that's what I had to endure until the police arrived. For the crime of forgetting an item in my bag even existed after running a convention.

Of course it's my fault for not checking my bag before I left the house, if I was a weapons collector I'm sure I would've thought twice but I'm not.

If happened in California, and since you at a LoL con it sounds like you were, the TSA officer was correct. Possessing throwing stars (shrunken) can get you up to a year in prison:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&gr...

Right, California is one of a handful of states with a definition for (and a ban on) throwing stars. A few hundred lines or so up the penal code from your link the definition can be found. What I had was a toy and did not meet the definition.

The police, who are local and have at least a basic understanding of California's laws, immediately knew it was not a throwing star. I'm not sure if TSA is allowed to touch weapons, but they refused to attempt to handle this item even after police arrived.

If this sounds stupid it's because it is. Someone threatened me with jail time and then came back to haunt me even after the police said there was no weapon. I retained an ex-TSA attorney, learned the laws and fought hard to understand the process.

In the end I just got on the phone with my case agent who quickly Nerfed my violation soon after I sent the email. Nothing that can be done about the PreCheck ban though.

> I'm not sure if TSA is allowed to touch weapons, but they refused to attempt to handle this item even after police arrived.

The TSA is not allowed to touch weapons, and the police are not allowed to perform the sorts of pat-downs that the TSA provides[0].

Incidentally, packing a gun in your checked luggage is supposedly the best way to make sure nothing ever gets stolen. If you pack a gun (even a flare gun will do), you are required to lock it with a lock for which only you hold the key, and the TSA cannot open it without calling the police in case they need to look inside. Not to mention, the penalties for them losing a piece of luggage that has a declared firearm inside it are way worse than the penalties for when they steal something from your luggage[1].

[0] Jurisdiction-dependent, of course - but police have to meet a much higher bar to pat people down than the TSA do.

[1] Which is to say, 'nothing', because there are essentially no penalties for TSA employees who are caught stealing, even repeatedly. It's absurd.

Reading how CA defines a shuriken, it doesn't sound like the toy qualifies (not intended to be thrown, assuming the edges aren't sharp):

> As used in this part, a "shuriken" means any instrument, without handles, consisting of a metal plate having three or more radiating points with one or more sharp edges and designed in the shape of a polygon, trefoil, cross, star, diamond, or other geometric shape, for use as a weapon for throwing.

Could maybe qualify as a replica weapon regardless?

Yes, think about what you're putting in your bag.

It is sad that TSA is just a bunch a phony-baloney security theater, but that's not going to change anytime soon. In the meantime please be careful about what you put in your bag so that you don't delay others. Airports are stressful enough already.

Thanks for the advice.

The first time I read this I thought it was satire.

serve you good for giving up your freedom for a little convenience (paying TSA bribe: pre-check). I have no simpathy for you :(

do what you must. bite the bullet on 1h plus for security, and opt out of the undocumented scanner.

your country thank you.

I always opt out, although I've heard rumblings about that option going away.

I always feel bad for the poor dude who had to feel up my junk with the back of his hand, but it's my tiny little bit of civil disobedience.

Few years ago, went to South America on a mission trip. Got a new Passport for the trip as I'd never been anywhere that required one. Every TSA checkpoint on the way home I was stopped, frisked and searched. I almost missed every single flight. I ran miles and miles that day trying to catch planes.

Edit: Ok, maybe not miles, but seriously, had to run to every plane.

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