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Comment by JanezStupar | Hacker News Reader

Yes?

> The VW scandal more generally raised awareness over the high levels of pollution being emitted by diesel vehicles built by a wide range of carmakers, including Volvo, Renault, Mercedes, Jeep, Hyundai, Citroen, BMW, Mazda, Fiat, Ford and Peugeot.[22][23] Independent tests carried out by ADAC proved that, under normal driving conditions, diesel vehicles including the Volvo S60, Renault's Espace Energy and the Jeep Renegade, exceeded legal European emission limits for nitrogen oxide (NOx) by more than 10 times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal#A...

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Emission testing fraud at Mitsubishi (incl cars for Nissan): http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/20/mitsubishi-m...

Kia was also namedropped in the article.

I suppose it's easier to compile a list of manufacturers not involved in messing with the numbers...

I think that's probably a little misleading. The European emissions limits are based on a specific driving cycle that's known to be kinder than real-world driving. If you use a more realistic test cycle with more aggressive acceleration you're going to get worse efficiency and pollution than the NEDC tests.

Exactly. Those are two different, though related, issues. 1. Cheating on the NEDC tests. 2. Emission limits are not coupled to real driving scenarios. Edit: This is important to distinguish. 1 is illegal, 2 is the law but maybe changed.

Volvo, Renault, Mercedes, Jeep, Hyundai, Citroen, BMW, Mazda, Fiat, Ford and Peugeot have not used fraud to pass the tests. You are citing studies using different test conditions than the official test.

While you are technically correct (the best kind of correct!) - we as consumers have still been deceived into thinking we are purchasing and driving vehicles that we thought were significantly cleaner than what they really are.

But to say that the manufacturers have no fault in the way the tests are structured is a bit... disingenuous. Don't you think?

That's because no benchmark is perfect. You're also being tricked to buy a "twice faster cpu" on your latest phone because it showed twice better performance on a particular benchmark.

But There's a big difference between the company that make engineering decisions that try to improve the results on the benchmark (because after all that's what consumers get fooled with) and the one that would have a "if (benchmark_in_progress) cheat; "

Apples and oranges.

EPA test cycle is different than normal driving conditions. It has been a subject of complaints for a long time, that the paper mileage is divorced from reality (and is especially troubling for corporate owners, when your tax admitted expenses are only up to the paper mileage; everything above it gets taxed).

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