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Comment by scorciapino | Hacker News Reader

I try to be open minded; I try to appreciate the style; I try to pretend it's not just a glorification of criminality, immorality and shallowness, but with every song I listen, I get closer to the conclusion that it's the same goddamn piece of rap.

Would anybody care to prove me wrong?

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I assume you also believe that mafia films are glorification of criminal behaviour, war films are teaching our youth to become heartless soldiers and old cowboy films are promoting ethnic genocide.

How about we have a single point of view in the world? We could make a big world conference and come up with a safe, polite, nice sort of music, a correct sort of behaviour, a proper way of dressing, and then we could all just conform to that. Perhaps you would like to draft the first version?

As in any genre there is a wide range of talent and musical ability among rap artists. The record industry is really good at printing one hit wonders and then burning them up. Those are probably the guys who are making the songs you are referring to. This is not unique to rap, it happens in pop, alternative, rock and roll, heavy metal and any other genre. I could easily say "metal is just screaming" or "alternative is all the same crappy guitar chords" and I would be kind of half right some of the time.

If you take a look at some of the more accomplished artists with staying power you will discover thoughtful lyrics and complicated music. Jay Z has been getting more and more musical over time. The American Gangster soundtrack was an explosion of funky horns and beats that really set the tone of the album to that of the film. Death of Autotune doesn't have an electronic note on the track. This is not to mention the vast pool of talent in the underground hip hop and rap scene, which is something you should really investigate if you are going to give the genre an honest examination.

If you don't care for rap music that's fine, but saying "it all sounds the same" just makes it obvious you don't ever listen to rap music. What would you think of me if I said all classical music sounds the same?

Often it does all sound the same, because the same producers are used on everyone's album. In the early 2000s, 50% of what was on the radio, hip hop or otherwise, sounded like it was either produced by the Neptunes or Timbaland.

Maybe that's because you haven't really tried looking?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lrVO3pPDP4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc80CmGOR9o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqeRvZO8HmQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT6iUz0rCuE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAebS16KplY

This is just a random sample of rap songs from my recently played playlist.

Honestly, I'm super jaded by the types who listen to top 40 radio and think that's all there is to rap/hip-hop. It's an extremely diverse genre and the vast majority of what you hear on the radio or in clubs is just one part of it.

Sounds like you are not open-minded at all, no matter how hard you try.

I tend to prefer rock, blues, and jazz, but there is definitely something to be appreciated in a lot of rap music. Tupac Shakur, Bone Thugz and Harmony, Notorious BIG, Wyclef jean... these are/were very talented and musical guys, and not all of their songs feature violence or misogyny.

Rap music, like any other kind of music, takes knowledge and experience to appreciate. When you understand why rap music is rap music, and what makes it different from blues and R&B, and how those forms evolved into rap, you'll start to appreciate the music.

Maybe you'll never like hip-hop; to each his own. I don't like most contemporary hip-hop either, but think Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, Nas, Jurassic 5 and Del the Funky Homosapien all made some great albums in the late 80's - late 90's.

I enjoy pop. But I find the lyrics behind rap to have a lot deeper and personal meaning.

I hope my downvoters enjoy the beauty and art of "Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks / Lick on these nuts and suck the dick / Get's the fuck out after you're done"

Are you going to throw the Rolling Stones and hundreds of other classic rock bands under the bus too, because they use swear words and talk about all the girls they boink?

If you ask me, those lyrics are awesome and memorable. You have to be pretty tightly wound to take them seriously.

It's not about swear words. It's about lack of any meaningful content. Just bragging, trying to shock by disgusting and being an asshole to everyone, especially woman and police.

Instead of thousands rap songs you could have only two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqXi8WmQ_WM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC03hmS1Brk

Similarly, instead of thousands of books, many postulate you could have just 3-4, but they are just talking about the plot. You may find a lot of similarities in the words of rap songs, but if you took the time to listen to a lot of rap music, then you would know there are a whole range of beats, harmonies, instrumental work, sampling, and other techniques that make rap as interesting as any other music.

This is silly though. I have heard thousands of rap songs, and you clearly have not. I can quote rap lyrics, and you cannot. I can drum out the beat to a rap song, and understand its uniqueness, but you cannot.

So, why should I argue with you? Go educate yourself, and then we can talk. I wouldn't talk to a non-programmer about the merits of protypical inheritance, and I see no reason to talk to you further about rap music.

This comment is even a waste of time, but you and Scorp's mindless drivel gets under my skin.

Wow, touchy.

Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do! ;-) (sorry 6-th season just started and I'm somewhat influenced)

I listen to rap music. I've heard hundreds of songs so I'm at least order of magnitude less experienced rap listener than you. I often like the music and interesting music tricks. I think rap music is averagely innovative and pleasant to hear. I can even quote some fragments of lyrics (surely not as many as you) but that's not because I like them. It's just because when you throw shit at wall some of it will stick.

As for educating myself no one can know everything so I prefer direct my physically limited learning capacity at different subjects.

If you have free capacity I'd like to interest you in a thing that I consider clever lyrics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmfo-eL9VKc

Well, it's good to know you didn't pass judgment without listening. Now you just need to hear the music :)

Those lyrics are indeed clever, but I was bored right away honestly, even after fast-forwarding through the intro.

Go watch this and tell me it's not an awesome song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aj1sznTdLM

I don't want to enrage you or continue this discussion. We have just different tastes. I'm writing this because you phrased your suggestion in a way that you seem to be expecting an answer.

The song you suggested is a nice song. In a summer radio kind of way. Like an average pop song. Reminds me of "Save Tonight" (which btw I consider much more awesome). Lyrics are good especially if you are slightly detached from real world an in "sad reflection on life of some people you've never met" mode at the moment of listening.

Sorry if you took my comment as offensive, that's my last one.

I'm pretty open minded when it comes to music. I can take something from almost every other genre of music, but I'm bored to death by rap. I could overlook the violence and crassness if I could see (or hear) some redeeming virtues, yet they have always eluded me. Is there a particular song or album you would recommend to experience the genre at its best? What makes it interesting to you?

This very popular song by Wyclef Jean is musically awesome, has great lyrics, and while it talks about "thug life" and prostitution, I don't think it's particularly offensive to women, nor does it glorify violence. I even like the use of auto-tune here.

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/wyclefjean/sweetestgirldollar...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aj1sznTdLM

Isn't this more contemporary R&B? Although it makes use of a hiphop rhythm, and there is some rap interjected here and there, it's not really what you would call a rap song, is it? Also, I was hoping for something considered really great in the genre, something your children will listen when it's no longer fashionable. This song, while not terribly offensive, seems rather vanilla and it's hard to imagine people listening to it in a couple of years, let alone decades from now. I doubt Autotune will age well.

And now we have gotten to the root of the problem with blanket commentary like "Rap sucks." Rap is a very diverse field of music, and only an ignoramus could write it all off as one package.

What blanket commentary? Who are you quoting? I'm thoroughly bemused by your response. I was looking for something definitive for the genre. I could be wrong, but what you put forward seemed slightly outside of the genre, or at least not representative. I was looking for the rap equivalent of Sgt. Pepper or the Dark Side of the Moon, if such a thing exists.

Sgt Pepper would be "It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back" by Public Enemy, and Dark Side of The Moon would either be "Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)" by the Wu-Tang Clan or "Bizarre Ride II the Pharcyde" by Pharcyde.

I've always been a big fan of "The Message" by Grandmaster Flash et al

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4o8TeqKhgY

Amusingly, someone has randomly inserted a lady in lingerie before the video starts, but just ignore that, and enjoy the poetic and insightful social commentary.

Give this a try: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiYDJ432b0U

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