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Comment by Loque | Hacker News Reader

Get real. Or a tin foil hat.

I am mid thirties, grown up in the UK and not having guns here is amazing. People don't get shot, as a teenager in the council flats in the UK, no-one is going to turn up with a gun, or carry a gun. And unsurprisingly, people make mistakes with guns (accidents happen).

I have been forever conflicted, as I love the idea of guns, I wanted them as a kid/teenager, the idea of having such a tool is fascinating. However they are reserved for video games in my life...

The only time I may regret this is in some kind of completely hypothetical situation (zombies, aliens, gov gone crazy) which is so unlikely to happen I would rather the tools to kill each other very quickly were not legally available.

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I'm in my late twenties, in rural New England, and having guns here is amazing. People don't get shot, and accidents almost never happen. People that have guns typically have rifles and shotguns for hunting purposes (venison is delicious, by the way), and know enough about them to respect them and use them properly. In my state, provided you aren't a felon, you can purchase a firearm in about an hour, with a simple background check (from your local Walmart, even), and you can apply for a concealed carry permit at your local police station, which they are required by law to grant you within fourteen days, again provided you come back clean on the background check. It's a fantastic state, but then again, it's more akin to living in Iceland than the rest of the country

I'm more likely to get hit by a bus or drop dead of an aneurysm than shot and killed by anyone.

There's also just a metric fuckton of guns out there, so you'd have a hard time tracking them all down. I'm really not a gun collector, but I've personally got at least a dozen rifles and shotguns, and three or four pistols. You inherit these things... I work with a couple guys that are actually target shooting enthusiasts, and it's amazing the armories that they've put together.

Shootings are not rare here, but fatal shootings are rare. Here's a link from the same source [0] to a non fatal shooting last night in London.

[0] http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/15/brixton-shoot...

Gov gone crazy is not as unlikely as you think. It may only seem that way because of our short lifespan.

Maybe this is subjective, I personally do not think it will happen in the UK. I would also rather take that risk than allow everyone to own guns just for this unknown eventuality...

If it assures you in anyway, my grandfather who was in the war, handed in his 1911.

All that tells me is you forget the lessons others have learned the hard way.

Experience is a dear teacher but fools will learn no other way.

Again, we actually had an armed insurrection in the UK in Northern Ireland, including civilians being shot dead by the military, and it offends me to see people fantasising about political violence as some kind of first resort. It went on for decades, killing and immiserating a large number of people.

The thing is, when the gov goes crazy it is usually against some group of people. If you are not part of that group then you may actually believe the gov is quite sane.

Also, all it takes is some really bad times for nice people to elect a tyrant. We've seen it before many times in history.

Trump phenomenon fueled on xenophobia, racism, and authoritarianism, which is scary for minorities, is an example of a gov that could go crazy.

I would argue that if Trump gets voted in, it is the people who are crazy. I do see your point though - I guess everything feels very nice and pedestrian here... nothing owning guns would solve anyway.

I would also argue that all those xenophobic trump fans can legally own guns...

After the last elections in the UK, I don't really trust the "general public" =D

The US founders also did not trust the general population which is why the electoral college was used to elect the president. Being young I could not understand why when I first read about it. I understand now why, the masses can be quite stupid as demonstrated many times by history.

I believed the negative hype about Trump till I actually listened to what he had to say in context. I don't agree with the guy on a lot, but the emotional reactions instead logical debate really need to stop

>Trump phenomenon fueled on xenophobia, racism, and authoritarianism, which is scary for minorities, is an example of a gov that could go crazy.

Sentences like this are not arguments they are emotional regurgitations of fear created by endless news cycles of ad hominem attacks and half truths.

Trumphobia is the irrational fear of Donald Trump created by media attacks on a candidate they can not control.

-Calls most Mexicans rapists ands stands by it

-tweets a statistic that most white people are killed by black people, never apologizes, refuses to backtrack

-pretends he has no idea who white extremist groups or the kkk are when asked point blank whether he will disavow their support

... The list goes on and on

I'm not defending trump, I just don't see a place for emotional "-ist" words based on very selective framing of someones speech.

we need to talk about illegal immigration and criminal activity. We need to talk about Black on Black violence not just police violence. Why should he know David Duke is? and he disavowed 15 times.

I love the push back, that is what america is about having debates about important issues, not shouting down people who have different opinions.

"David Duke, former grand wizard of the KKK... would you disavow his support or that of his organization?" "I don't know who David Duke is, and as for any organization, well, I'd have to do further research before disavowing their support"

The next day "Oh, of course I would. It was a bad earpiece they gave me, I told them it wasn't working well."

Well enough that he heard the question just fine and was able to put together a coherent (if bad) answer. Nope, blame your earpiece. Some disavowal that was.

Ok.. you might not trust him saying he had a bad earpiece but he did disavow many times. I'm still not seeing the most evil man on the planet as many try to associate him with. Every argument is based on 90% emotion and a tiny bit of negatively framed fact.

>Why should he know David Duke is?

Donald Trump knows perfectly well who David Duke is and what he stands for[0].

[0]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/...

>Donald Trump knows perfectly well who David Duke is

fair enough, good debate on if trump knew him, but since that first interview where he claimed to have a bad ear piece he had disavowed him many times since. I know it gets a lot of air time because the media gets to say "Trump" and "kkk" in the same sentence but this is just an association fallacy and not even an evidence for anyones argument.

>Calls most Mexicans rapists ands stands by it

(slanted framing)

Because they are illegals the stats are difficult to prove or disprove.

-An estimated 25,000 of these undocumented immigrants serving sentences for homicide

-A cumulative total of 2.89 million offenses committed by these undocumented immigrants between 2003 and 2009 (although half a million of these were for immigration-related offenses)

-Among those offenses: An estimated 42,000 robberies, 70,000 sex crimes, 81,000 auto thefts, 95,000 weapons offenses, and 213,000 assaults

http://www.gao.gov/assets/320/316959.pdf

Nationwide, illegals are Five time Less likely to be in prison than native born US citizens. Also, immigration violations, not violent acts account for most immigrants in federal prison.

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/anecdotes-eviden...

Now that is a good argument. I don't give a shit who win the illusion of choice professional wrestling match we call US presidential elections. I would like to see Trumps ideas discussed logically instead of putting blinders on to real problems that are hard to deal with.

> > Trump phenomenon fueled on xenophobia, racism, and authoritarianism, which is scary for minorities, is an example of a gov that could go crazy.

> Sentences like this are not arguments they are emotional regurgitations of fear created by endless news cycles of ad hominem attacks and half truths.

or maybe they're simple observations of the guy himself talking uninterrupted in his election rallies. i saw some on tv, it was embarrassing.

I agree he is a sales man and it can be off putting to a lot of people. On the other hand comparing him to the qualities of Hitler is a extreme misrepresentation and it is just godwin's law.

you're the first to pull the hitler card in this thread.

though you have a point, his campain does resemble Hitler's. sure, it's jews in one and brown people in the other... other than that? the greatest nation on earth under siege! let's make this country great again! they will pay for what they've done to us!

>xenophobia, racism, and authoritarianism, which is scary for minorities, is an example of a gov that could go crazy

These are the qualities of hitler, I pull it to illustrate how ridiculous and lazy your arguments are.

You get offended by someone saying people coming over the boarder illegally are criminals, yet it is ok compare Trump to someone that called for the killings of tens of millions of people most not jews or brown, but white[1]. I don't see the media yelling for apologies on that one...

[1]http://www.ukemonde.com/holocaust/victims.html

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