Comment by kuschku | Hacker News Reader

Comment by kuschku | Hacker News Reader

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Germany, in fact, does leave people behind.

But it doesn't leave them without perspective.

The tiered school model of Germany sorts you into one of three tiers based on your abilities with the age of 10, which gets even more specific over the years after that.

Only people finishing from the highest tier can go to a theoretical university, people from the tier below can at maximum go to a university of applied sciences, and people from the lowest tier can only go to a trade school.

Obviously, these tiers have different lengths of education (5 years, 6 years, 8 years), and you can always switch up a tier if you believe you can do it, but most people take what's recommended for them.

And this is necessary.

We, as a society, have to accept that some people won't be able to study maths. Or computer science.

For some people, applied sciences, or even a more technical job might be more ideal.

The solution isn't to get everyone into college, but to accept the fact that not everyone can do so, and to also value the job the manual workers are doing.

There is this nice advertisement campaign from 2014 from the German association of craftsmen, "What would the world be without craftsmen?": https://youtu.be/YfgqIWwxk2g

Students from technical high schools can attend theoretical universities and just need to do some remedial prep work first.

It's necessary not because of what some people can't do, but because:

1. It doesn't make sense to send people, who want to work in hospitality for example, to a school that has to pay for physics, chemical engineering, medical labs, etc.

2. Reducing the shopping mall quality of the American-style university -- and equally respecting technical and trade schools for the education they provide -- results in a more even distribution of attendance and probably healthier personal debt.

A lot of the German school routing is directed by desire as well; the solution is to help youngsters explore and express the skills they have most strongly.

The architecture is a bit complicated, though the picture on Wikipedia does an alright job explaining it, I think:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany#Overview

That's a great advertisement.

I've just moved to Germany from the US about one year ago. So far it's made me realize how under-developed the US society is. As I learn more about how Germany operates, I constantly have those, "that makes so much more sense", moments. Of course this isn't always true, but in general I feel that they are just doing things a little better here.

I agree that society has to change how we view jobs that don't require education from a university. It makes no sense that we should value an engineer from a tech company more than a farmer that provides our food.

Also, I find that people in Germany are more aware of what role they play in society and how it operates.

As a German I have to say, while this sounds nice, Germany is still horribly inefficient, trains and busses are always late, and a lot of bureaucracy is useless.

I’m not sure yet if Germany is just the least worst country, or if it’s just all PR.

some more things to note (granted, I don't know how things work in the rest of the world):

the sorting after the age of 10 is simply a recommendation. It is simply an estimation of the Teacher if the Student will get accepted by a school of certain tier. For example, I recieved a mid-tier (Realschule) recommendation, but was accepted by a highesthtier (Gymnasium) school due to musical skill and passing some kind of intelligence test.

Skills taught by the scools vary by tier. A friend wo went to a lower tier school tended to have more practical subjects such as "mechanics" or "crafting". They learned how to assemble a solar array, how a transmission or factory line works etc.

You can get to any tier of education if you want. If you want to become a baker and are on a highest tier school you can drop out after getting your low-tier certificate in 9th grade and go to a trade school, and that's totally fine. If you are in a low-tier school you can either have grades good enough to get accepted by a mid-tier school and then by a high-tier school. You can also go to school in the evening if you want a better certificate, but have a job.

Ah just like the old System the UK had with Grammar schools for the middle class and Secondary modern for the working class kids whose role in life to leave school at 15/16 and work in industry.

It's got nothing to do with "working class kids" and their "role in life". I've had classmates from very affluent parents move into vocational training, and I've had poor friends complete a university degree.

That the US and UK fail in this matter doesn't say anything about the rest of the world's ability to provide equal opportunity for all children.

Lol that wouldn't fly in this country (UK) vocational training is for the "Plebs".

And from what a German HN contibutor said here its funny how all the "dark skinned" Germans get put into the vocational track.

Germany is unfortuntly an outlier.

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