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Comment by throwaway7767 | Hacker News Reader

Yes.

I think they do that on purpose to get people to automate the certificate renewal. Their default client of course messes with all sorts of configuration to make auto-renew work "out of the box".

Many people (myself included) aren't fans of their client getting so much access, but there are other clients out there that don't need it. I use acme-tiny[0] in a small shell cronjob once a month. It lets acme-tiny request a renewed certificate. Then it checks that the new certificate is valid, copies it to the right places and reloads the relevant services.

Honestly, I couldn't be happier about not having to manually change certificates again.

[0] https://github.com/diafygi/acme-tiny

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Stop spreading FUD: it does not "mess with all sorts of configuration".

_Renewal doesn't touch any config files at all._ "letsencrypt-auto" puts the certs/keys under /etc/letsencrypt/keys. On renewal, new files get added. Old files are never touched. /etc/letsencrypt/live contains symlinks to the most recent files. Your webserver config uses these => its config does not need to be changed for renewal.

What you're talking about is only the initial certificate installation with "letsencrypt-auto run", and it makes a very targeted change in your Apache config. Use etckeeper if you don't trust it. If you still don't want that, use "letsencrypt-auto certonly".

(Note on server restarts: It also supports multiple methods, one of which is the webroot method, with which letsencrypt-auto does the challenge by putting a file under .well-known/acme-challenge/ of your webroot and lets your webserver handle the request, so it doesn't need to restart/replace your webserver itself.)

And about all these "minimalistic tools": I've seen one that literally did "new-cert.sh > $cert-file". If it failed (e.g. due to ratelimit, no internet connectivity, ...), it would null your old cert! Written and used by very smug people.

It wasn't intended to be FUD. The letsencrypt client needs to change the configuration of other services. This is a fact. Not everyone is happy about that, so I pointed out an alternative.

If you're happy with the official client, by all means, use it! There's nothing inherently wrong with that approach, it's just not compatible with the way I and some others prefer to do things.

EDIT in response to your edit:

> And about all these "minimalistic tools": I've seen one that literally did "new-cert.sh > $cert-file". If it failed (e.g. due to ratelimit, no internet connectivity, ...), it would null your old cert! Written and used by very smug people.

Absolutely, the minimal tools are not for people who don't know what they're doing. You absolutely would not run acme-tiny for example with write access to your actual cert that the web server is using, because any number of failure scenarios would result in downtime. That's why I specifically addressed that in the initial post you're replying to when I said: "Then it checks that the new certificate is valid, copies it to the right places and reloads the relevant services".

> The letsencrypt client needs to change the configuration of other services. This is a fact. Not everyone is happy about that, so I pointed out an alternative.

No, it doesn't NEED to. It's the most commonly discussed option, but it is not necessary. It can do the exact same "write to a folder in the webroot" mode most of the alternatives use.

(I'm not saying that there is no reason to use an alternative client, but that's not it)

The official letsencrypt client never touched any of my config files, it doesn't have to if you prefer to do it yourself.

> Stop spreading FUD: it does not "mess with all sorts of configuration".

It does more than you'd expect, IMO.

> letsencrypt-auto is a wrapper which installs some dependencies from your OS standard package repositories (e.g. using apt-get or yum), and for other dependencies it sets up a virtualized Python environment with packages downloaded from PyPI.

http://letsencrypt.readthedocs.org/en/latest/using.html

I was certainly a bit surprised when apt-get ran.

As said by others if you run it with certonly it doesn't touch the config at all. My cronjob contains a

path/to/letsencrypt-auto certonly --webroot --renew-by-default -w /var/www/letsencrypt/ -d example.com

and puts the signed certificates into /etc/letsencrypt/live/excample.com/fullchain.pem . This is followed by a service nginx reload

I did not trust their automatic configuration as well so I simply configured nginx to use the keys + cert and to serve .well-known/acme from /var/www/letsencrypt/ for all my domains.

That's all. It works quite fine and if something does not work (e.g. python breaks.) such that the renewal is unsuccessful. LE will send you an email in advance (I think 30 days) so you have plenty of time to look after it.

I don't think its fud. Calling apt-get is just crazy on my view.

I haven't fully automated mine yet, but I get alerts when any of my certs are getting close to expiry and I just have to run "/etc/letsencrypt/process.sh" now and it handles everything automatically at that point.

I'd rather run that script manually 4 times a year than go through the pain of renewing all of my certs by logging in to websites and pasting CSR's and Certs around every 1 or 2 years.

Once I'm comfortable with the process I'll just cron it and forget about it.

Don't forget this[1] gem which is my favorite way to use letsencrypt. It will let me run it by cron (or periodic on FreeBSD) plus I can have my own post-run script that takes my certificates and keys and puts them in the format I need for Hitch (SSL termination for Varnish), push those changes, restart the service _inside_ a FreeBSD jail automatically.

It's advanced setups like this where LetsEncrypt fails out of the box, but it's nice we have tools like this at our disposal now.

[1] https://github.com/lukas2511/letsencrypt.sh

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